Surprisingly bad units

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

LOL. It's quite surprising how the benefits of Thessalian Cavalry reveal themselves to the one but not to the other. Quintus, you never really used Thessalian Cavalry. At best you hired a single mercenary unit without any upgrades or experience (logically, cause you don't own Thessalia in your game I presume) and compared it to your battle hardened fully chevroned Thraikioi. You think that Makedonians get another type of bodyguard unit. It's pointless to further discuss that matter with you cause obviously you don't have any significant knowledge about Hellenistic Cavalry in EB. You are the Roman guy, why not just stick to them Romans?

[Fondor_Yards]

Erm, if you look at his sig you'd see his last 2 campaigns are as Eperios...

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Erm, if you look at his sig you'd see his last 2 campaigns are as Eperios...

"Epeiros as Pergamon", to be precise.

[Fondor_Yards]

Exactly, which cavalry would he be using then.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Most likely lots of Thraikioi Prodromoi, but no Thessalians. And while he frequently used those Thraikians, he encountered the notorious Makedonian Reformed Bodyguards, which we all fear for our lives when we get to see them. Unfortunately, he is so convinced now that arguments don't reach him. You can say "I experienced this frequently", and "look at the stats", he'll always find an argument to say that Thessalians are bad. Go with Equites Romani instead I say.

[QuintusSertorius]

LOL. It's quite surprising how the benefits of Thessalian Cavalry reveal themselves to the one but not to the other. Quintus, you never really used Thessalian Cavalry. At best you hired a single mercenary unit without any upgrades or experience (logically, cause you don't own Thessalia in your game I presume) and compared it to your battle hardened fully chevroned Thraikioi. You think that Makedonians get another type of bodyguard unit. It's pointless to further discuss that matter with you cause obviously you don't have any significant knowledge about Hellenistic Cavalry in EB. You are the Roman guy, why not just stick to them Romans?

Go have a look at either of my Pergamon AARs to see me using Thessalians (early on when I overestimated how effective they might be, based on their stats and their cost). See how poor they are. See me butchering Makedonian FMs with Epirote FMs and Thrakian Prodromoi. See that I actually know how to use my cavalry, as well.

I use Curepos, Illyrian Hippeis, Thrakian Prodromoi, Eastern Light Cavalry, Hellenistic Mercenary Generals and Epirote FMs to great effect. The only ones out of that lot who aren't mercenary for me are the Eastern Lights. We're not comparing apples with oranges, Thessalians are mercenary for me too.

So I don't pay much attention to the progression of factions I have no interest in playing, big deal. Still remains that I've killed their FMs with ease.

[Celtic_Punk]

plus Quintus is not the only one here who has said they've been let down on more than one occasion by thessalians

[Ludens]

I hate to admit this, but I think Thessalians underpowered as well. Stat-wise Prodromoi offer the same charge value and better stamina at 75% of the cost. Thessalians do better at close-combat, but not that much, and it isn't what cavalry are meant for. The only use I can imagine for Thessalians is to engage and pin enemy heavy cavalry: here they can use their speed, armour and AP side-arm to best effect. However, they do suffer a lot of casualties in the process so you can only do this in a couple of battles before needing reinforcements. Hetairoi on the other hand do this almost without breaking a sweat, while Prodromoi won't do that much worse and are easier to replace.

[teh1337tim]

it really depend on how you use it and where you use it, hell i usually maintain 1 or 2 in my army along with those thraikens and hetairoi ,
it beats anything in greece and can be recruited via merc or from lvl 4 mic so easier to maintain early on, ah well- as long as it beats anything in greece, im good .. then on to other calv in asia :P

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Thessalians - to my experience - do quite much better in close combat because they have an AP-Kopis. They are as swift and agile as Prodromoi, but at the same time better armoured. They cost more though and have a very limited recruitment area, but this has nothing to do with their ability in battle of course.

[Celtic_Punk]

I just put em to the test tonight, I hired 1 Thessalonian cavalry unit, and 1 of those Prodromoi. When flanking and hammering the rear it seems that Prodromoi do not have as great a charge, but they can maintain their morale in a shitty situation and stay fresh for longer. Thessalonians for all that extra armour giving them more weight in their charge, they lose alot more pulling out to repeat, and once they do they have already begun to tire themselves out. Their armour is their burden. They cannot catch lighter cavalry, and when mopping up the enemy they've lost so many troops that they get mobbed by even missile units. Prodromoi have alot more staying power, and when you've got huge unit sizes on and a large number of regiments on each side, you want someone who can stick it out to the end. Thessalonians are just not up to the task. as a reserve cavalry unit that is there to rape infantry/cavalry trying to flank your men, they excel at that. nothing more. But unless you got money to piss away that could be spent on your economy, your not going to need Thessalonians. My advice? save the 7000 and buy yourself a nice market, peace loving marketeers will help your war effort more than these clowns will, because the fact of the matter is, their job can be fufilled by any cavalry force, or even some cheap and dependable theroperuoi (spelling?) at least they have javelins!

[QuintusSertorius]

They are as swift and agile as Prodromoi, but at the same time better armoured.

Not even is this a contradiction in terms, but it's simply untrue. Heavier armour is why they're both slower, and have less stamina. And by the way, we've been talking about the Thrakian Prodromoi throughout, not the regular Hellenistic ones (which aren't as good).

[Ludens]

Thessalians - to my experience - do quite much better in close combat because they have an AP-Kopis. They are as swift and agile as Prodromoi, but at the same time better armoured.

Nope, Thessalians are not as swift and agile as Prodromoi because the latter have improved stamina as well as the same charge. This makes them better at executing repeated shock-charges. Thessalians are superior in close-combat fighting, but they don't exactly excel at it and always seem to take somewhat high casualties in my hands. Prodromoi do even worse, but you don't expect them to do well and they are easy and cheap to replace. Neither of them is suited for close-combat anyway: leave that to the infantry or the likes of Hetairoi.