Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do

[InsaneApache]

He said that, as imam, he could not forbid Muslim women from standing for election, but he would be entitled to forbid his wife. “Because this is Britain, you cannot tell anyone what to do. I can tell my wife, but cannot tell other women, ‘You cannot do this and that',” he said.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle4258052.ece

So this thinks that he can order his wife what to do because he lives in Britain? I wish I had his cajones.

Talk about a bigoted mysogenistic outlook.

They can't understand my mainstream views and those of ‘live and let live' and how the British culture should be respected ... It has been extremely hard for me and my family and if it wasn't for my British constituents, I don't think I would have been able to get through it.”

Good for her. These medieval goons who are threatening her should be prosecuted for undermining the democratic process. Bring back the birch.

[Fragony]

You just have to respect that. Brave woman by the way. But this isn't really that bad, imam acknowledges that he must respect brittish values and doesn't impose anything. Sucks to be his wife but he understands that religion is a personal thing, that's enough for me really.

[Tribesman]

Bring back the birch eh , and would the good man like a nice strong stick to beat the {lovely} lady with ?

[InsaneApache]

I'm sure that the rule of thumb might apply here.

[Tribesman]

Just for you IA ,a link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pytZ...eature=related
2 minutes into it

[Adrian II]

Just for you IA ,a link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pytZ...eature=related
2 minutes into it

Hurray for the taming of another shrew. True love is edgy, boys. I have personally spanked my wife more than once to set her some clear boundaries. I would do so again any time I find it necessary and she knows this. And she loves it. She hates to love it, but she does because she chose me as her partner for life, and as a man who would do what he thought she needed.

Somebody in Britain, explain that to the imam. Oh, and to Tribesy, because he doesn't seem to get it either.

[KukriKhan]

I'm unclear on who the birch is to be used on (not in the clip; that's clear enough - tho' Thornton 'loses' the stick before he confronts the Brother-in-Law).

Funny how both the clip and the article, and our conversation, are all about assimilation of immigrants, Muslims to UK (today) and Americans to Ireland (in the 50's), yet with such different emphasis' on physical aggression.

[PanzerJaeger]

Typical muslim values. Luckily she hasn't been raped, or he'd have to kill her. That wouldn't be a big deal though, as he could barter with some other man for his daughter. She'd have to be a virgin of course, because young brides forced into marriage who aren't virgins are nothing but trash who deserve to be killed by their fathers. At some point though, after a lot of window shopping and wife killing, he'd find a woman not deserving of Allah's wrath for one reason or another.

We can't do much about how these act in the Middle East, but shame on us for letting it happen in the West.

[InsaneApache]

I was being ironic about bringing back the birch.

[KukriKhan]

Once again, I condemn and regret my irony-impaired american-ness. :)

[InsaneApache]

Perhaps an irony smiley?

[HoreTore]

Typical muslim values.

A typically ridiculous statement.

[Fragony]

And a typically need to defend, why defend it that's rediculous. And yes I know you were reacting to PZ comment very specifically. But PZ is right those are pretty damn there in islamic values culture and they even used to be common here go figure.

edit

[HoreTore]

And a typically need to defend, why defend it that's rediculous. And yes I know you were reacting to PZ comment very specifically. But PZ is right those are pretty damn there in islamic values culture and they even used to be common here go figure.

Not defending the guy in the first post at all, I was(as you understood), responding solely to PJ's extremely generalized view.

How can it be a muslim thing when a fair share of muslim have never even heard of things like arranged marriages or honour killings?

[Fragony]

Not defending the guy in the first post at all, I was(as you understood), responding solely to PJ's extremely generalized view.

How can it be a muslim thing when a fair share of muslim have never even heard of things like arranged marriages or honour killings?

Well a fair share of muslims can read or write, we don't have the smart ones here just the farmers. "I go the medieval times and bring back............." <-new game

[Dâriûsh]

How can it be a muslim thing when a fair share of muslim have never even heard of things like arranged marriages or honour killings?

That must have been a statistic I've missed. Somehow I doubt it.

[HoreTore]

That must have been a statistic I've missed. Somehow I doubt it.

Haven't seen any statistics, but I personally know quite a few muslims who didn't know of such things before they came here to Norway.

Libya is one such country.

[PanzerJaeger]

How can it be a muslim thing when a fair share of muslim have never even heard of things like arranged marriages or honour killings?

Really? You feel muslim women are treated with equality in immigrant communities? This story and a thousand others seems to contradict that rosey outlook.

It isn't just about me any more - it is about thousands of other women who are being held down by people who refuse to wake up to the reality that it is the 21st century.

Muslim culture as practiced in the Middle East and exported to Europe and other parts of the world is broken, demented, and sadistic. It breeds the hatred and terrorism that has poured over into our own countries. Honor killings and arranged marriages are just the tip of the ice berg of abuse against women, physical and mental, that runs rampant in these communities. We don't even need to discuss what happens to converts to other religions, homosexuals, jews, underage girls, and other offenders of allah, do we?

Luckily there are brave women like this who demonstrate that the problem is the culture, not the people. When put into an environment where they are allowed, contemporary-minded muslims can succeed just like anybody else, even, gasp, women! I bet no one was more surprised than that Imam. Maybe he'll allow his wife out of the house a bit more... err... probably not.

[Adrian II]

Haven't seen any statistics, but I personally know quite a few muslims who didn't know of such things before they came here to Norway.

Libya is one such country.

Stop blabbering and start educating yourself and your Libyan friends. In a free world ignorance is no excuse.

[HoreTore]

Really? You feel muslim women are treated with equality in immigrant communities? This story and a thousand others seems to contradict that rosey outlook.

You missed my point. No, things are not rosey. However, there's a HUGE variation within the "muslim community". A man from pakistan has his way of doing things, a man from Libya has a completely different one. Both claim that their way of doing things is the correct way according to Islam, of course...

Like honour killings. The Libyan my sister is living with had never heard of it, and he is a religious muslim who attended Quran school in his youth because he wanted to.

Or take female circumcision. Both christians and muslims do it in africa, and both justify it with "god says so". Ask any christian or muslim from a place other than where they practice it, and he would most likely say they're crazy.

[HoreTore]

Stop blabbering and start educating yourself and your Libyan friends. In a free world ignorance is no excuse.

You and I both know that I will never stop blabbering, gramps

[Fragony]

Muslim culture as practiced in the Middle East and exported to Europe and other parts of the world is broken, demented, and sadistic. It breeds the hatred and terrorism that has poured over into our own countries. Honor killings and arranged marriages are just the tip of the ice berg of abuse against women, physical and mental, that runs rampant in these communities. We don't even need to discuss what happens to converts to other religions, homosexuals, jews, underage girls, and other offenders of allah, do we?

Beats me.

[Adrian II]

You and I both know that I will never stop blabbering, gramps

Yes, that's because your 'communism' is fake.

Your so-called leftist political views are all talk and no political conscience. You conveniently pass over the fate of the worst victims of social injustice, i.e. women, because you want to celebrate ethnic minorities and migrants as the new proletariat. I spit on such a cheap view of solidarity.

Blabber on, comrade; nobody is listening anyway.

[Fragony]

Yes, that's because your 'communism' is fake.

Your so-called leftist political views are all talk and no political conscience. You conveniently pass over the fate of the worst victims of social injustice, i.e. women, because you want to celebrate ethnic minorities and migrants as the new proletariat. I spit on such a cheap view of solidarity.

Blabber on, comrade; nobody is listening anyway.

Wow AdrianII even my evil side would salute you for such ruthlessness but why not hug your pillow looks like she needs you

[HoreTore]

Yes, that's because your 'communism' is fake.

Your so-called leftist political views are all talk and no political conscience. You conveniently pass over the fate of the worst victims of social injustice, i.e. women, because you want to celebrate ethnic minorities and migrants as the new proletariat. I spit on such a cheap view of solidarity.

Bah. I'm arguing against completely retarded generalizations(ie. "all muslims this and that"), not against people opposed to oppression of women, who I agree with. I have absolutely no good thoughts towards people like the guy in the OP, but my way of removing such ideas is different.

Beat the muslims the same way we've beaten the christians, I say.

[InsaneApache]

Really? You feel muslim women are treated with equality in immigrant communities? This story and a thousand others seems to contradict that rosey outlook.



Muslim culture as practiced in the Middle East and exported to Europe and other parts of the world is broken, demented, and sadistic. It breeds the hatred and terrorism that has poured over into our own countries. Honor killings and arranged marriages are just the tip of the ice berg of abuse against women, physical and mental, that runs rampant in these communities. We don't even need to discuss what happens to converts to other religions, homosexuals, jews, underage girls, and other offenders of allah, do we?

Luckily there are brave women like this who demonstrate that the problem is the culture, not the people. When put into an environment where they are allowed, contemporary-minded muslims can succeed just like anybody else, even, gasp, women! I bet no one was more surprised than that Imam. Maybe he'll allow his wife out of the house a bit more... err... probably not.

Bloody hell. An awful lot of what PZ says is true. Like it or lump it.

[InsaneApache]

Yes, that's because your 'communism' is fake.

Your so-called leftist political views are all talk and no political conscience. You conveniently pass over the fate of the worst victims of social injustice, i.e. women, because you want to celebrate ethnic minorities and migrants as the new proletariat. I spit on such a cheap view of solidarity.

Blabber on, comrade; nobody is listening anyway.

Amen.

[Dâriûsh]

Really? You feel muslim women are treated with equality in immigrant communities? This story and a thousand others seems to contradict that rosey outlook.

...

Honor killings and arranged marriages are just the tip of the ice berg of abuse against women, physical and mental, that runs rampant in these communities. We don't even need to discuss what happens to converts to other religions, homosexuals, jews, underage girls, and other offenders of allah, do we?

Just in case you make the mistake of assuming that the phenomenon is not as prevalent in non-Muslim communities:


Facts & Figures on Violence Against Women

Domestic and Intimate Partner Violence

Violence Against Women in the United States

[JR-]

britain is only 50 years ahead of the view expressed in the OP,
up until the fifties domestic violence against women was common place.
it wasn't talked about, but it happened a lot.

[Dâriûsh]

I think we're getting a bit derailed here. I believe the main point of this thread was the fact that a religious nut talked about how he could tell his wife what to do.

Interestingly, and to add a little spice to the subject, a female friend of mine apologetically told me how she was pressured into voting for a far right anti-Muslim (by their own words) and anti-immigrant party in the last national election by her boyfriend. Both of them are, as far as I know, non-religious western Europeans. Douchebaggery towards women needn't have a cultural or religious foundation.