But I don't want to kneel down for Allah

[Fragony]

ah frak it

[GoreBag]

If I had been in their situation, I would have refused. I learned a little about Islam when I was in school and my knees never hit the ground for it.

[HoreTore]

What the hell kind of lesson about islam forces the children to kneel down and pray, even if just simulation? And what kind of system forces children to take part?

The same system that takes children to church to teach them about christianity, I'd guess...

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

The same system that takes children to church to teach them about christianity, I'd guess...

That's the decision of the parents, and they're still not forcing the child to pray.

[Fragony]

That's the decision of the parents, and they're still not forcing the child to pray.

Now a school forcing an islamic child to do christian prayers, watch everyone who thinks this is ok grow disgusted by such a blatant breach of individual liberty.

I wish having a black butler would become fashionable again. Bored white people, not good.

[HoreTore]

That's the decision of the parents, and they're still not forcing the child to pray.

No.... Some schools use the same manner of teaching ass this school, when they teach about christianity...

EDIT: I still remember having to sing "Du som metter liten fugl"(roughly "you who feed the small bird", a norwegian psalm or something) before lunch in my first years of school. And that was mandatory.

[JR-]

This story is really doing the rounds , they were punished for refusing to pray , they were punished for being disrespectful to allah , they were punished for blah blah blah

These pupils and their parents signed up to a code of conduct .
Follow all intructions in class .
Co-operate fully with your teachers in class .
Do not disrupt any class .
Oh and take responsibilty for your actions .

So they broke three conditions they had agreed to , which kicked in the fourth condition so they cried boo hoo ....end of story

BTW I do like the obligatory I am not a racist I have an Indian friend comment in the Mail article , its also in the BNP article on this story .

the situation is idiocy on the teachers part, she was wrong to use her influence as a teacher to coerce her students into doing something they clearly felt incompatible with their beliefs, and doubly wrong to try and punish the children for not doing what they were told rather than stepping back from the first glaring error in her conduct.

[Ironside]

Leftist church in Sweden? Are you confusing "leftist church" with "the majority of swedes"?

Fragony seems to take his Swedish news from gates of vienna, who belongs to those groups that reports everything that says what they already knew (irrelevant if true or not) and ignores the rest.

When they studied Roman Catholicism, did they serve wafers and wine?

We had it, admittably it was on the manditory study-visit of the local church. Alchohol-free wine though, tasted crap. We also had bible studies, mainly from a kid version that didn't contain the uhm "darker" parts amoung other things. Had pictures though.
Never had to pray.


If it happened as told it certainly sounds over the top, although it would be needed to know how the teacher teached to other religions to know if he was simply generally going over the top with all religions or Fragony got a reason for going "The Muslims are coming and the PC crowd is their fifth column"... Personally I suspect that they will be exactly as effective as the original fifth column.

[Fragony]

Fragony seems to take his Swedish news from gates of vienna, who belongs to those groups that reports everything that says what they already knew (irrelevant if true or not) and ignores the rest.

You do see a lot about sweden there. Used to be vikings. Now don't inviting someone to your party is enough to get them bouncing against eachother in apologetic terror. Sweden is the biblebelt of political correctness an absolute joke for a country. And hot chicks with disproportionatily fat necks but nobody's perfect.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

No.... Some schools use the same manner of teaching ass this school, when they teach about christianity...

First of all, source, second of all, are these schools, by chance, Catholic schools? You know, where if you're not Catholic and you go there, it's your own choice?

Now a school forcing an islamic child to do christian prayers, watch everyone who thinks this is ok grow disgusted by such a blatant breach of individual liberty.

Right on. No Muslim student should be forced to pray in the Christian manner either, and I get the feeling HoreTore would be a lot more worked up if this was the case.

[HoreTore]

First of all, source, second of all, are these schools, by chance, Catholic schools? You know, where if you're not Catholic and you go there, it's your own choice?

The one I went to, Mjøndalen Skole, for example. The source would be, well, me. It's the public school, and there are no alternatives to it.

Also, our minister of education was sacked in part because of the controversy when he said that praying in school was unacceptable...

Right on. No Muslim student should be forced to pray in the Christian manner either, and I get the feeling HoreTore would be a lot more worked up if this was the case.

Bah, I get upset whenever I see worshiping of any kind in school. However, I don't believe that this is a sign of the apocalypse or some sort of conspiracy to overthrow society...

[Fragony]

Bah, I get upset whenever I see worshiping of any kind in school. However, I don't believe that this is a sign of the apocalypse or some sort of conspiracy to overthrow society...

Kids having to pray to allah in a public school? I think scandinavia and the uk should be given up anyway nothing worth keeping anymore but geez.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

The one I went to, Mjøndalen Skole, for example. The source would be, well, me. It's the public school, and there are no alternatives to it.

Anything recent, to suggest this is happening now in Britain?

[HoreTore]

Anything recent, to suggest this is happening now in Britain?

I'm norwegian; I care not for the barbarians living on some tiny island...

[Adrian II]

Kids having to pray to allah in a public school?

Oh please...

The kids had to pretend to 'pray' as part of a lesson about religion, not as part of a plan to convert them. The teacher handled it wrong, obviously. I think that is all there was to it - except that in today's poisoned atmosphere such incidents are blown out of all proportion.

[Fragony]

Oh please...

The kids had to pretend to 'pray' as part of a lesson about religion

What....for..... Only because the difficulty in folding the islam under our wings collides with the multicultural dream and those that believe can't accept that, so they try to alter the reality in which it has to settle.

[Adrian II]

What....for.....

Why not? Role play helps you understand social phenomena. I did it at my school. Kids all over the world do it.

There is no need to get hysterical over it, unless you subscribe to Fragony's and Louis' hysterical notions that Islam is taking over Europe and the European Commission is its main vehicle. That's tinfoil hat territory, gentlemen.

[Fragony]

Why not? Role play helps you understand social phenomena. I did it at my school. Kids all over the world do it.

There is no need to get hysterical over it, unless you subscribe to Fragony's and Louis' hysterical notions that Islam is taking over Europe and the European Commission is its main vehicle. That's tinfoil hat territory, gentlemen.

No it is not tin foil hat territory it is very much real, islam isn't taking over europe people like you are giving it away without a fight. And you can't even see it and that amazes me to no end. Every value is negotionable for you, that is why there will be nothing left.

[English assassin]

Can we have a small reality check?

Requiring children to receive religious instruction (NB, not to learn about religion) is contrary to Art 2 Protocol 1 of the ECHR.

So, seriously, anyone who was MADE to pray at school: see a lawyer. (I mean really made to pray, as in, your parents said they didn't want that, and the school forced you to do it).

Anyone?

No. Somehow, I thought not.

Oh, and Frag, the most recent case on it is Zengin v Turkey, where it was mandatory instruction in Islam that was ruled unlawful. So its not one rule for Muslims and another for the rest.

Read and enjoy: http://cmiskp.echr.coe.int/tkp197/vi...103&highlight=

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Oh, and Frag, the most recent case on it is Zengin v Turkey, where it was mandatory instruction in Islam that was ruled unlawful. So its not one rule for Muslims and another for the rest.

The key part of that statement is highlighted. Turkey is part of Christian Europe since when?

[PanzerJaeger]

Why not? Role play helps you understand social phenomena. I did it at my school. Kids all over the world do it.

Its quite strange to force children to kneel and pray against their will, roleplay or not. I went to private Catholic school in America and even they cannot force you to do anything religious that you were uncomfortable with. Maybe its an American thing..

[Adrian II]

Its quite strange to force children to kneel and pray against their will, roleplay or not. I went to private Catholic school in America and even they cannot force you to do anything religious that you were uncomfortable with. Maybe its an American thing..

Why would that be typically American? France for instance is very insistant on this sort of liberty, more so than the United States. It wouldn't be tolerated in The Neds either.

The UK teacher just handled it badly, she should not have forced the kids. Her mistake is not an indictment of role play, Islam, or religious education.

Every now and then the same sort of hullabaloo arises when teachers want to role-play the nazi era with their pupils. Some kids are cast in nazi roles, others in those of Jews. It is only a matter of time before some stoopid parent who doesn't get it alarms the authorities because "my kid is indoctrinated with nazism!".

The only good answer is

[Adrian II]

islam isn't taking over europe people like you are giving it away without a fight. And you can't even see it and that amazes me to no end. Every value is negotionable for you, that is why there will be nothing left.

I think you are confusing me with someone else.

[Fragony]

Can we have a small reality check?

Requiring children to receive religious instruction (NB, not to learn about religion) is contrary to Art 2 Protocol 1 of the ECHR.

So, seriously, anyone who was MADE to pray at school: see a lawyer. (I mean really made to pray, as in, your parents said they didn't want that, and the school forced you to do it).

Anyone?

No. Somehow, I thought not.

Oh, and Frag, the most recent case on it is Zengin v Turkey, where it was mandatory instruction in Islam that was ruled unlawful. So its not one rule for Muslims and another for the rest.

Read and enjoy: http://cmiskp.echr.coe.int/tkp197/vi...103&highlight=

Do I have to remind you that Turkey has a fiercily secular tradition? Maybe we should welcome them in the EU after so our politicans don't feel so burdened by common sense. You are english and I need a reality check? Head of the justice department just declared his love for the implementation of the sharia in the brittish justice sytem, you missed that?

[InsaneApache]

Yeah! I'm stoned as well.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I went to private Catholic school in America and even they cannot force you to do anything

They can't? In Catholic schools over here they force their pupils to bend over five times a day.



Adrian probably went to a Catholic school too, he still remembers how good Catholic pupils answer their teacher's requests for some roleplaying Catholic School style:

The only good answer is

[Husar]

Well, I would have either refused or completely ridiculed it but then we never had such stupid demonstrations anyway, it's not like we had no idea what kneeling is.

That said I also refused to do this or that for various reason but the only real punishment was usually a worse grade.

[PanzerJaeger]

PantieJaeger

A typo I'm sure..

Anyway, in both my elementary and high schools (two different Catholic schools), forced participation wasn't allowed.

[RabidGibbon]

This whole story reads to me like a teacher decided to introduce a novel, and a little misguided, concept of hands on learning, the class clowns saw an opportunity to prance about and make a scene, the teacher lost control and started handing out detentions.

Its a total non-story, but I do know an RE teacher and I'll ask her if forced conversions to Islam are part of the national curriculum. Incidentally, I was made to close my eyes, lower my head and clasp my hands whilst saying amen for thirteen years of my life, and it didn't make a Christian out of me, If I'd refused I most likely would have got detention, and it certainly wouldn't have made the national papers - but then again, back in the day when you got detention you tried to keep it secret from your parents, rather than running home and getting them to commission you a human rights lawyer.

In the first sentence of the article the words pray to Allah are put in parentheses indicating, at least to my mind, that praying to Allah isn't what is going on. If some kids refused to do so then the teachers response should have been “fair enough, sit it out”. However as I pointed out above, the teacher seems to have lost it – we don't know the whole story, these two kids could have been real swine, who needled the teacher at every opportunity. I know my class at school always saw the RE teachers as easy marks, and driving them into a frenzy was a sort of mass participation sport. After all, which parent cares if their kid is falling behind in RE, whilst doing well in Maths, Science and English (or whatever heathen language foreigners might be taught?).

Its all just a massive storm in a tea cup.

Technical note: A public school in the UK is one that you pay to send your kiddies to (above and beyond taxation)* so that they can learn the proper accent and form the cliques early on that are necessary to the correct governance of these islands. I'm not sure what the schools that the proletariat swarm to are called. Primary for the nippers and Secondary once you hit 11 – 12? Grammar schools needed you to pass a test, but I think they got done away with universally a long time ago.

Off Topic by far my favorite quote in the linked article is this one:

The Article
"I haven't got a problem with them teaching my child other religions and a small amount of information doesn't do any harm.”

If I ever have any kids to send to school, I hope it will be with the thought “I hope they don't learn enough information to do them any harm...”


*Although if you can afford to send your brat to “public” school, you can probably afford a tax lawyer who can cut your tax bill to that of your 16th century forefather, whilst claiming retrospective compensation for the trade monopolies your family lost when the Dutch performed their coup d'etat in 1688.

[Tribesman]

This topic is hilarious , so many of the usual suspects getting their panties all twisted up with their outrage over a total non-story

I guess according to tribesman, if the headmaster wanted to demonstrate with some of the pupils during sex-ed class, it would be their fault as they registered for school and agreed to be polite and do what they were told! What a logical breakdown...

logical breakdownPanzer you have suffered a complete breakdown of your logic circuit there
Errrrrr..... lets see if I was tribesman if the headmaster wanted to do something illegal it would be entirely in accordance with the school policy and code of conduct that the teachers pupils and parents had agreed too

Yes Panzer your logic really needs fixing .