Hypaspistai

[Timoleon]

I started using Hypaspistai in my Makedonian campaign and I noticed that they have swords as their primary weapon and spears as their secondary. Why is that? It makes them a bit awkward to use. How do you use such a peculiar combination? Which files do I have to change in order to make spears primary and swords secondary?

Another question is for the historians in this forum. How did Hypaspistai evolve after Alexander the Great? Did they just joined the phalanx? Did they retain their distinct role in the battlefield? If I'm not mistaken, they aren't mentioned in the battles against the Romans in the 2nd century BC.

[satalexton]

i'm no historian, but in battles in use them to anchor my right flank so that nothing gets behind my phalanx while i wheel my general and hetairoi over for a classic hammer and anvil. In sieges, I use them as the ace-in-the-hole heavy infantry.

I think it's an engine bug that they draw swords when idle, the Hypapistai historically fought as hoplites if my memory serves me right...

[Olaf The Great]

For some odd reason, over-hand spears cannot be primary weapons.


Alt-rightclick changes that.

[Mediolanicus]

For some odd reason, over-hand spears cannot be primary weapons.


Alt-rightclick changes that.

Then, for what other odd reason do they work as primary weapon when used by levy and classical hoplites?

[Timoleon]

Alt-rightclick changes that.

My problem isn't the way to make them use their spears but that when I order them to charge with swords, when a soldier falls down, automatically uses the spear when he gets up! I try to use them as flankers and for this role their sword is the suitable weapon.

[Olaf The Great]

Then, for what other odd reason do they work as primary weapon when used by levy and classical hoplites?

Because Levy/classical hoplites don't have secondary weapons..


It's the combiantion of Overhand spear and sword that cause it.

[Mediolanicus]

Because Levy/classical hoplites don't have secondary weapons..


It's the combiantion of Overhand spear and sword that cause it.

Ooh! Ok, that makes it clear, my mistake.

[Power2the1]

Another question is for the historians in this forum. How did Hypaspistai evolve after Alexander the Great? Did they just joined the phalanx? Did they retain their distinct role in the battlefield? If I'm not mistaken, they aren't mentioned in the battles against the Romans in the 2nd century BC.

I'll take a stab at this one. During Alexander's time they numbered 3,000. Two chiliarchies, or 2,000 men, were the 'normal' hypaspistai. The third chiliarchy was the 'royal' hypaspistai.



- Polybius mentioned at Raphia in 217 B.C. that the argyraspides made up most, not all, of the Royal Guard which was always around 10,000 men. Bar Kochva thinks, and it makes sense at least to me, this means that the argyraspidai would have numbered 8,000 men, while the additional 2,000 would have been hypaspistai. I think here at Raphia they *might* have fought as phalangites, thus causing no specific mention of them, but I'm not sure what the official thought on that is.

- A few yeas later when Antiochus III besieged Sardis in 214 B.C. against the rebel Acheaus, they were 2,000 in number here.

- In Macedonia, the Hypaspistai were mainly called 'peltasts', their Antigonid term. I read once account of the peltasts of Philip V and some Illyrians were lying in ambush, sprung their suprise attack, and routed a force of pursuing Aetolians completely. I forget what the numbers on both sides were

Theres much more to the hypaspistai but I hope this helps

[Timoleon]

- In Macedonia, the Hypaspistai were mainly called 'peltasts', their Antigonid term. I read once account of the peltasts of Philip V and some Illyrians were lying in ambush, sprung their suprise attack, and routed a force of pursuing Aetolians completely. I forget what the numbers on both sides were

So maybe the Hypaspitai and the Peltastai Makedonikoi are the same unit in the Makedonian kingdom?

[Tellos Athenaios]

Well, it's funny nomenclature for you: in Makedonia there seems (if memory of the discussions on the team, serves me) to have been a distinct difference between this "junior elite" (Peltastai Makedonikoi) who were mostly known for their elite status because of their soldiering-skills; and the Hypaspistai who were much closer to the king (namely his personal foot-guard).

That indicates a distinct social & political status difference between the two fighting forces. Also the Hypaspistai seem to have been some sort of Military Police.

[Lysander13]

I started using Hypaspistai in my Makedonian campaign and I noticed that they have swords as their primary weapon and spears as their secondary. Why is that? It makes them a bit awkward to use. How do you use such a peculiar combination? Which files do I have to change in order to make spears primary and swords secondary?

You would need to change the model itself which I assure you is no easy task. They were modeled
with the sword as the primary weapon and the spear being secondary. If you just simply edited the code to reverse the order of the weapons, the unit would look very peculiar. So unless you happen to have a lot of spare time to invest in learning how to use 3ds Max, as in several months worth, your probably better off just getting used to fighting with the unit the way it is.

[keravnos]

So maybe the Hypaspitai and the Peltastai Makedonikoi are the same unit in the Makedonian kingdom?

Indeed. Makedonikoi Peltastai (former Pheraspides) and Hypaspistai are one and the same unit. In fact they were designed as such to depict the two major roles that they played in battle.
1)Assault infantry
2)Heavy peltasts who would assault after discharging their javelins.

[abou]

Indeed. Makedonikoi Peltastai (former Pheraspides) and Hypaspistai are one and the same unit. In fact they were designed as such to depict the two major roles that they played in battle.
1)Assault infantry
2)Heavy peltasts who would assault after discharging their javelins.

Currently that isn't our interpretation anymore. I think you missed that conversation while you took personal leave, Kos.

As of now, the Peltastai Makedonikoi have more in common with the elite phalangites (though not necessarily the same corps) than the Hypaspistai. It isn't an exact science this units stuff, but three was a clear distinction between the Hypaspistai and Peltastai in Makedonia and the other successor kingdoms.

[Timoleon]

So unless you happen to have a lot of spare time to invest in learning how to use 3ds Max, as in several months worth, your probably better off just getting used to fighting with the unit the way it is.

I got you point. Ι'll practice with them in my royal training grounds (a.k.a custom battles)!

Currently that isn't our interpretation anymore. I think you missed that conversation while you took personal leave, Kos.

Is there a link to some other thread?

[Tellos Athenaios]

Also the RTW engine would freak out over the Overhand-spear 1st; Sword 2nd combo. (You'd get to see very disappointing behaviour in battles.)

And no the thread [mentioned by abou] isn't public (in fact it are several of them; none of them public IIRC).

[Puupertti Ruma]

I'd suggest that this sword first, spear second issue should be added to the FAQ as it pops up quite often and is confusing enough that I for one always seem to forget how you was supposed to use them. Alt-clicking first and left-clicking second or other way round.

[keravnos]

Currently that isn't our interpretation anymore. I think you missed that conversation while you took personal leave, Kos.

As of now, the Peltastai Makedonikoi have more in common with the elite phalangites (though not necessarily the same corps) than the Hypaspistai. It isn't an exact science this units stuff, but three was a clear distinction between the Hypaspistai and Peltastai in Makedonia and the other successor kingdoms.

Oh, I did miss that. Apologies to those who read my obsolete explanation. Tellos Athenaios and Abou should be read instead.