Split in Church of England

[ICantSpellDawg]

Wow, the ignorance regarding the CofE here is actually a little scary. True anglicans CANNOT become Catholics because Anglican Theology differs in several fundamental ways which have nothing to do with Gays or Women.

the two of the biggest examples are transubstantiation and the issue of "bad" priests. These Anglicans who don't want women Bishops will have to sacrifice much more important things than gender issues to join Rome.

A number of High Church Anglicans believe in Transubstantiation. What is a "bad" priest?

Anglicans convert all the time. We have an absurd amount in common. they "CANNOT" convert?

[Tribesman]

Also - Jesus took no women to join him as one of the 12 disciples. Are you saying that he was wrong and sexist? Thats what you'd say if he lived today. What makes you more knowledgeable about right and wrong than Jesus (If you are a Christian)?

So Jesus didn't appoint any woman as one of the twelve , yet as soon as he died and there was this thing called Christianity there miraculously appear women disciples doing the same job as the men in spreading the word....seems like a bit of a precedent to me that does , and hey you don't even have to go to scriptures that were removed from the bible by the later church to show that to be the case .(though you might have to go back to the greek because the later church wasn't happy with what the scriptures said so changed the words)

[Adrian II]

(though you might have to go back to the greek because the later church wasn't happy with what the scriptures said so changed the words)

Changed the wording? You don't say?

Welcome to the miraculous world of God’s word, as seen through the eyes of His denominations. I remember taking apart Exodus 21:22-25 some time ago for the benefit of Caledonian Rhyfelwer.

Maybe Mr Tribesman, my esteemed coleague in exegesis, could be persuaded to do the same for another verse.

Might I humbly suggest the "Thou shalt not kill" command, which has been miraculously changed to "Thou shalt not murder" in the New American Standard Version (1971), the New International Version (1978), the New King James Bible(1982), the New Revised Standard Bible (1989) and the Revised English Bible (1989).

The reason given for this change is that the Hebrew 'rtsh' as used in Exodus 20:13 means 'murder' in every other instance in the Bible. This is not factually true; it has different meanings in different verses and in Numbers 35:29-30 it even means 'judicial execution' (''Moreover, 'thou shalt not take ransom for the life of a murderer who is guilty of death, but he shall surely be put to death').

Go tell the Texans that Exodus 20:13 reads: "Thou shalt not execute"!

Of course the motive for the change is political. It is no coincidence that the change occurred in Bible translations published by (or on behalf of) Evangelical Protestants and Protestant state-church denominations who support the death penalty as well as military interventions on behalf of their countries.

Who'd have thunk the Lord's word was so flexible?

Anyway, something tells me Tribesman will think of an example of his own. So many instances to chose from, eh?

[rvg]

The Church of England is experiencing a failure of leadership, and the Archbishop is largely at fault. The man doesn't have the guts to stand up for the traditional Church principles. So, the best solution for the Anglicans is indeed to re-enter the communion with Rome.

Step 1: Anglicans re-unite with Rome

Step 2: Orthodoxes re-unite with Rome

Step 3: Crusade!

Step 4: ???

Step 5: Profit!

Oh well, I can dream, can't I? Though I really do think that the world would be a better place if xtians ran the show everywhere.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

A number of High Church Anglicans believe in Transubstantiation. What is a "bad" priest?

Anglicans convert all the time. We have an absurd amount in common. they "CANNOT" convert?

Uh uh, the Articles of Religion: http://www.churchsociety.org/publica...B_Articles.htm

Particually:

XXII. Of Purgatory.
The Romish Doctrine concerning Purgatory, Pardons, Worshipping and Adoration, as well of Images as of Reliques, and also invocation of Saints, is a fond thing vainly invented, and grounded upon no warranty of Scripture, but rather repugnant to the Word of God.

XXV. Of the sacraments.
Sacraments ordained of Christ be not only badges or tokens of Christian men's profession, but rather they be certain sure witnesses, and effectual signs of grace, and God's good will towards us, by the which he doth work invisibly in us, and doth not only quicken, but also strengthen and confirm our Faith in him.
There are two Sacraments ordained of Christ our Lord in the Gospel, that is to say, Baptism, and the Supper of the Lord.
Those five commonly called Sacraments, that is to say, Confirmation, Penance, Orders, Matrimony, and extreme Unction, are not to be counted for Sacraments of the Gospel, being such as have grown partly of the corrupt following of the Apostles, partly are states of life allowed in the Scriptures; but yet have not like nature of Sacraments with Baptism, and the Lord's Supper, for that they have not any visible sign or ceremony ordained of God.
The Sacraments were not ordained of Christ to be gazed upon, or to be carried about, but that we should duly use them. And in such only as worthily receive the same they have a wholesome effect or operation: but they that receive them unworthily purchase to themselves damnation, as Saint Paul saith.

XXVI. Of the Unworthiness of the Ministers, which hinders not the effect of the Sacrament.
Although in the visible Church the evil be ever mingled with the good, and sometimes the evil have chief authority in the Ministration of the Word and, Sacraments, yet forasmuch as they do not the same in their own name, but in Christ's, and do minister by his commission and authority, we may use their Ministry, both in hearing the Word of God, and in the receiving of the Sacraments. Neither is the effect of Christ's ordinance taken away by their wickedness, nor the grace of God's gifts diminished from such as by faith and rightly do receive the Sacraments ministered unto them; which be effectual, because of Christ's institution and promise, although they be ministered by evil men.
Nevertheless, it appertaineth to the discipline of the Church, that inquiry be made of evil Ministers, and that they be accused by those that have knowledge of their offences; and finally being found guilty, by just judgement be deposed.

XXVIII. Of the Lord's Supper.
The Supper of the Lord is not only a sign of the love that Christians ought to have among themselves one to another; but rather it is a Sacrament of our Redemption by Christ's death: insomuch that to such as rightly, worthily, and with faith, receive the same, the Bread which we break is a partaking of the Body of Christ; and likewise the Cup of Blessing is a partaking of the Blood of Christ.
Transubstantiation (or the change of the substance of Bread and Wine) in the Supper of the Lord, cannot be proved by holy Writ; but is repugnant to the plain words of Scripture, overthroweth the nature of a Sacrament, and hath given occasion to many superstitions.
The Body of Christ is given, taken, and eaten, in the Supper, only after an heavenly and spiritual manner. And the mean whereby the Body of Christ is received and eaten in the Supper is Faith.
The Sacrament of the Lord's Supper was not by Christ's ordinance reserved, carried about, lifted up, or worshipped.

There's plenty more. The Articles are quite specific on the Theological reasons for breaking with Rome. A traditional Anglican cannot remain true to their proffessed beliefs and theology while at the same time entering into communion with Rome.

[Rhyfelwyr]

The differences between the Anglican and Roman churches are negligible when compared to other Protestant churches.

But that's what happens when your Protestant reformation is carried out by a greedy monarch rather than true reformers eg John Knox.

[drone]

The differences between the Anglican and Roman churches are negligible when compared to other Protestant churches.

But that's what happens when your Protestant reformation is carried out by a greedy monarch rather than true reformers eg John Knox.

Anglican/Episcopalian = Catholic Light. All the salvation, half the guilt!

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The differences between the Anglican and Roman churches are negligible when compared to other Protestant churches.

But that's what happens when your Protestant reformation is carried out by a greedy monarch rather than true reformers eg John Knox.

Hah! That's a Myth. The substance of the Anglican Church is very different to Roman Catholacism, and very close to Methodism. As to a "greedy monarch" for are correct that Henry VIII personally wrote the original, irrc, 15 Articles but they are VERY different to the current 39, which were devised under Elizabeth I by the Churchmen, along with the BCP.

Anglo-Catholics aren't Catholics, they're Anglicans who don't like the direction the Church has taken.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Catholics believe the same thing about "bad" priests. Just because a priest was evil doesn't mean that marriages performed, communion administered, etc were evil.

Those are pretty negligible differences compared to actively homosexual priests/bishops and female ordination.

A large number of Anglo-Catholics would have a hard time mentioning the differences between the two churches.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Catholics believe the same thing about "bad" priests. Just because a priest was evil doesn't mean that marriages performed, communion administered, etc were evil.

Those are pretty negligible differences compared to actively homosexual priests/bishops and female ordination.

A large number of Anglo-Catholics would have a hard time mentioning the differences between the two churches.

Your Pope is infallable and speaks with the authority of God, he is an absolute Monarch within the church. as to the ordination of Gay Clergy, it isn't permitted in the CofE, nor is the blessing of same-sex unions. A lot of people skip over the fact that the Archbishop of Canterbury instructed the Episcopalians to reverse their policies or face the consiquences.

The Church of England does not support homosexuality.

[Kralizec]

Can somebody explain to me what prayers to saints is all about, anyway? Even as a non-christian, the practice seems to be silly, if not watered down polytheism.

[CountArach]

Church Schisms - The greatest spectator sport ever.