Capturing Ships

[pevergreen]

After listening to half of Podcast #2, thanks to Martok for the link, I noticed that you can capture ships. A nice feature, but how will they carry it out?

If you capture the ship, will it be noticably different to your normal ships? Will it retain the original design? If you keep the crew, do you run the risk of them turning coat?

Definately looking forward to starting my own collection of ships from each country.

[Martok]

I feel some baseless speculation coming on....


I'd guess that for simplicity's sake, factions (at least the major ones) will all build the same ship types, at least in terms of performance and ability. Now whether or not another faction's ships *look* different is another thing entirely, although I would hope that they do.

As for a surrendered/captured ship's crew, I would guess that again for the sake of simplicity, the player will either have to ransom or execute them. Also, from what I remember of my old school lessons, impressment wasn't a very common practice outside of the British Royal Navy anyway, so I doubt it would be terribly realistic to implement it in the game.

[PBI]

Maybe they could make it that you have to escort captured ships back to a friendly port before you can use them in battle, to drop off the captured sailors and replace them with a friendly crew. I'm quite interested to see how prisoners work actually, I think it would be good if you could keep all the prisoners you take as prisoners of war, and then they could be used as bargaining chips in a ceasefire agreement. Having large numbers of your men held captive by the enemy would cause unrest back home so there'd be an incentive to get them back. My understanding is that prisoners who had surrendered honourably wouldn't generally be executed, although that might just be my impression from reading too many Hornblower novels.

Regarding different types of ship, while like pevergreen I would like to build up a collection of different styles, I actually think maybe it would be best if they keep the number of different types of ship quite small and uniform, like the land units in STW, since this is the first game to feature naval combat so it's something of a proof of concept. This would make it easier to balance, and then if it works well the add on could always feature hundreds of different types. Then again, no reason for the ships of different nations not to look different even if they have the same stats.

Incidentally, what became of peverpink?

[pevergreen]

He went outside.

To die.


In the rain.

[Pantsalot]

Maybe they could make it that you have to escort captured ships back to a friendly port before you can use them in battle, to drop off the captured sailors and replace them with a friendly crew

Although this would be more realistic, it would be too complex & time consuming if the original plan
for your ships was to attack a port & end up randomly finding another fleet, which after u capture
plenty of their ships then have to return to ur port before they're usuable. & also the fact that if
u were to get attacked b4 u got back to the friendly port then what would happen to the captured
ships?

This is quite a mystery what they will do about capturing ships but my guess is that it will be to
complex for me to be bothered for..

There will be a number of ships that only certain countries may have the main splits will be between African, Indian, Middle-Eastern, medditeranian & Northern European + 13 states as these countries
would have different makes of ships to suit they're area or just isolation from other countries makes
of ships. So people in Europe would more likely end up fighting each other with the same ships with
just different flags attached. If they do the same as what Imperial Glory did & make ships have
different colours on the trim or hull outside then I'd rather disband them. I want my armies PURE
like my civilians, that means NO IMMIGRANTS

[pevergreen]

From the IGN preview, it seems you gain control of the ships the next turn.

[PBI]

Although this would be more realistic, it would be too complex & time consuming if the original plan
for your ships was to attack a port & end up randomly finding another fleet, which after u capture
plenty of their ships then have to return to ur port before they're usuable. & also the fact that if
u were to get attacked b4 u got back to the friendly port then what would happen to the captured
ships?

I'd quite like that; you'd have to choose between scuttling the captured ships and keeping your own fleet at full strength or weakening your fleet in the short term to escort the captured ships back to port. I'd like there to be some situations where capturing isn't a good idea, otherwise I fear I'll always go for the capture rather than the kill and never get to see the pretty graphics of ships blowing up and sinking.

Unless I take your approach and go on a Dalek-like extermination of all opposition.

Of course it's moot, because as pevergreen points out, the ships will simply become yours next turn. But I wonder, do they automatically get crews for free, or do you have to make up a crew from the crews of your own ships?

[Pantsalot]

If it does indeed become urs next turn then I'd guess that CA will make the crew magically
appear, they could be smarter & make it that all the cannons can't fire & the ship doesn't
move as fast due to lack of crew therefore holding the fleet up & making a little backfire in
ppl's dreams in wanting to own a collection of ships from every country. Maybe the crew could
get captured during boarding? Maybe if it is a ship that ur country does not posses then it could
be unrepairable due to the lack of blueprints of the ship? Who knows, all we can do is make dim
guesses.

[Nepereta]

if there is capture can we also scuttle? Perhaps some last ditch activity by a crew desperate enough not to see their tub join the other side.

[Tamur]

if there is capture can we also scuttle?

Oh, good question. There was an economic sim a few years back called Port Royale with naval battles where that was indeed a possibility, and I ended up taking it on a regular basis. Poor sailors, but at least the English didn't get my hard-earned rum!

[Sabuti]

I read in one of the FAQS that you can replinish crew through impressment. Maybe not accurate but good for game play.

[Martok]

Do you remember where you read that, Sabuti? I've not yet seen any info on impressment myself, and would be curious to see what CA has said about it.

[Sabuti]

It might have been in one of the preview reviews on the naval part of the game. I dont remeber witch article

[Salazar]

Well i'd definitely hope that Ships dont automatically get changed to ships of your side, because this might be an opportunity for a player who's good with naval battles to get Ships his Faction otherwise couldnt even build, Ottomans capturing a British first rate or something like that.

[Sabuti]

why would that be an issue. the campaign games are one palyer and it wont effect multiplayer

[PBI]

Well i'd definitely hope that Ships dont automatically get changed to ships of your side, because this might be an opportunity for a player who's good with naval battles to get Ships his Faction otherwise couldnt even build, Ottomans capturing a British first rate or something like that.

Not sure I understand why this would be a problem, in fact it seems like it would be an excellent incentive to go to all the trouble of a boarding action rather than just blasting a ship to bits once it is crippled. Like pevergreen, I fully intend to start my own collection of exotic captured foreign ships.

And bear in mind that while the ships may be foreign, the crews will be your own; if the game represents crews from some countries as being better than others then you will still have to put up with your fancy captured ship being crewed by a bunch of landlubbers.

[Salazar]

Err, yes, that's exactly what i said. It would be an opportunity to get Ships you couldnt build, and that opportunity would be ruined if they would automatically get changed to one of your factions shiptyeps.
I guess i should have explained that better, im not against the ottomans capturing a british first rate if they can manage to do so.
On the contrary i was afraid that the rather rigid concept of faction ownership might prevent them from doing that, or perhaps even worse might automatically change the Ship to an Ottoman Ship, so they wouldnt have a first rate but rather some oriental Ship they could have built themselves.

[PBI]

Er, yep, reading your post again I probably should have picked that up, sorry. That's what I get for posting at 1am.

[rajpoot]

It's all fine with Ottomans capturing a first rate, but what I ask is, did they in reality have the sailors to sail it? I'm a total noob when it comes to ships and sail all right, but, what I mean is, when the Ottomans never built a ship of the line, how can the sailors recruited from their ports sail one? Aren't different ships supposed to have different sailing mechanics? Specially such giant warships? I really doubt that sailing an Ottoman galley would be anything like managing a SOL.....

[Martok]

Well I would imagine the basic principles of operating a deep-water vessel would still be more or less the same, regardless of the size of said vessel. Handling ropes & sails, navigation, etc., has to be at least somewhat similar no matter what.

That said, I'm sure that any ships you capture will start with a "green" crew to reflect their inexperience and/or unfamiliarity with their new prize.

[PBI]

Would be a bit silly if a native faction in canoes can capture a ship of the line and immediately use it; maybe if you capture a ship that is too different from your own could mean that you can tow it back to port and use it and its captured crew as diplomatic bargaining chips, but you won't be able to use it yourself until you reach the appropriate tech level.

[Mr Frost]

It's all fine with Ottomans capturing a first rate, but what I ask is, did they in reality have the sailors to sail it? I'm a total noob when it comes to ships and sail all right, but, what I mean is, when the Ottomans never built a ship of the line, how can the sailors recruited from their ports sail one? Aren't different ships supposed to have different sailing mechanics? Specially such giant warships? I really doubt that sailing an Ottoman galley would be anything like managing a SOL.....

Turkish warships became more like European ones during this timeframe . The Ship of the Line wasn't simply an European "cultural" design , it was a very logical design of warship for the technology of the day .
Ottoman Turks {and for that matter Barbary pirates or sailors of any of the Indian Kingdoms that had a navy or Imperial China} would soon adapt to a captured 1st Rater from England or France as the sailing technology wasn't that different and neither was the design of cannon .

[anders]

regarding the crew, the ships should probably start out with a skeleton crew only capable of a minimum of manouvre( and certainly no combat)( in norwegian, your crew on a captured ship would be a prize crew, is that so in english too?) when they come into your hands after capture, and need retraining( and repairs) in your docks to reach full strength.

[Martok]

regarding the crew, the ships should probably start out with a skeleton crew only capable of a minimum of manouvre( and certainly no combat)( in norwegian, your crew on a captured ship would be a prize crew, is that so in english too?) when they come into your hands after capture, and need retraining( and repairs) in your docks to reach full strength.

Agreed. I think that any enemy ships you capture should have to automatically put in to the nearest friendly port for repairs and to take on a full crew complement before putting back to sea as part of your navy. (Yes, it's called a "prize crew" in English as well. )

[A Nerd]

RIght on! Green ships make good targets for your well trained rookies...right!?

[Elmar Bijlsma]

May I point out the Ottoman Empire did have Ships of the line in use during the time in which Empire TW takes place.

I hope that the capturing ship goes a little something like this:
After the battle is done and you are returned to the strategic screen where prizecrews are subtracted from your ships and these are used to man the captured ships. Thus undermanned the captured ship and indeed the own ships are pretty much forced to head for a friendly port to retrain. Simple, effective and very much close to history.

The ship I am most looking forward to capturing isn't some monstrous 1st rater but a lowly French 28 gun frigate. Patrick O'Brian fans will know what I'm talking about. People who aren't fan of the Patrick O'Brian books: WHY THE HECK NOT?!? :D

[Intrepid Sidekick]

BTW if you want to see a boarding action in real gameplay go watch the movie we just released