Eleutheroi

**Celtic_Punk** · 07-15-2008, 17:45

in Arthurian total war you can get trade agreements with rebel states... or negotiate ceasefires (they come to you with terms, you cant suggest ceasefires yourself)

maybe the EB guys should talk to the ATW guys

**Foot** · 07-15-2008, 18:02

Originally Posted by Celtic_Punk

in Arthurian total war you can get trade agreements with rebel states... or negotiate ceasefires (they come to you with terms, you cant suggest ceasefires yourself)

maybe the EB guys should talk to the ATW guys

That happens when you give the eleutheroi diplomats, I believe. However it is not suitable, to my mind, as a trade agreement or ceasefire negotiated with the slave faction will apply for all rebel provinces not with anyone in particular. In EB terms, I can hardly see how negotiating peace with Ictis would mean that you are also at peace with Mikra Scythia. It was decided that to maintain the illusion that the slave faction is in fact full of distinct mini-factions, they should not get access to their own diplomats. The only exception to this is the Casse, as they start at peace with the Eleutheroi; this was to represent the state of affairs in britain between the tribes at the beginning of the timeframe. It was considered that as the Casse were on an island the effect wouldn't be too absurd.

Foot

**Scumbob22** · 07-15-2008, 20:04

It would be nice if you could be at peace with some while at war with others, and have trade rights or ally with individual "rebel" city states. That would be more accurate, and this mod is trying to be accurate.

**Foot** · 07-15-2008, 20:12

Originally Posted by Scumbob22

It would be nice if you could be at peace with some while at war with others, and have trade rights or ally with individual "rebel" city states. That would be more accurate, and this mod is trying to be accurate.

Yes, but you can't. The RTW engine cannot support that. Wishing is all very well, but unfortunately it is not a constructive method of modding any game.

Foot

**MarcusAureliusAntoninus** · 07-15-2008, 21:49

EB used to have rebel diplomats that you could negotiate with, back in the v0.7x days. The thing was, however, that the rebels were super rich and would just send their diplomats out bribing all of the player's armies and generals, and that was no fun.

**Scumbob22** · 07-16-2008, 05:42

Originally Posted by Foot

Yes, but you can't. The RTW engine cannot support that. Wishing is all very well, but unfortunately it is not a constructive method of modding any game.

Foot

I didn't know that was impossible, I wasn't simply "wishing". Realizing a problem or innaccuracy and then suggesting ideas to fix it is a constructive method. There may be other ways to have a more accurate relationship with the rebel settlements.

**dominique** · 07-16-2008, 06:57

Originally Posted by Scumbob22

There may be other ways to have a more accurate relationship with the rebel settlements.

I was about to say, well tough luck wrong engine, but your post gave me a crazy idea.

I was thinking about Massalia and other cities who thrived while trading with the ''barbarian" hinterland and it popped up: a building - a trading post say - who could give a X tax bonus (not in %, but a flat bonus) per Eleutheroi provinces adjacent to your own. So it wouldn't be trade, but it would represent the income generated by that trade with the tribes. It's a building that would be good in the beginning of the game, but it's utility would drop as the eleutheroi is gradually conquered.

History wise, it would represent the great wealth that relatively small cities like Massilia, Tanais and Cyrene had, and it would explain their "decline" as the hinterland got settled. It would also explain why many empires (including Rome) would conquer a colonial polis and leave the hinterland alone for a hundred years.

I don't know if it would work, if it's even modable, but I had this stupid idea and I had to write it. Just in case.

BTW Scumbob22, there's a game, called Europa Universalis 3, who try to have an historic and active simulation of the small countries. There's about 200 factions, from all over the world, ranging from the Ming empire to the iroquois confederacy. It looks good but, well, the problem is that all the 1 province factions are all gulped up in the first 50 years of the game by huge countries/blobs. While the idea of a titanic fight of 100 000+ armies in the steppes north of the Caspian Sea between the Ming and Lithuania can be quite engrossing, it's a little bit dull when you play Muscowy and the Ming army is five time bigger than your entire population. After 100 years, the world map looks like several fractals colliding with each other. And game after game it's all the same. The Ming in Russia, Vijayanagar ranges from Pakistan to Indonesia, Spain conquers all the Maghreb, The Mamelouk conquers Africa up to Zanzibar and the rest of the world is splitted up between France, Burgundy, Lithuania and Austria. It grows dull. It grows unmanageable. Damn.

**Scumbob22** · 07-16-2008, 18:26

Originally Posted by dominique

I was thinking about Massalia and other cities who thrived while trading with the ''barbarian" hinterland and it popped up: a building - a trading post say - who could give a X tax bonus (not in %, but a flat bonus) per Eleutheroi provinces adjacent to your own. So it wouldn't be trade, but it would represent the income generated by that trade with the tribes. It's a building that would be good in the beginning of the game, but it's utility would drop as the eleutheroi is gradually conquered.

That's a good idea and it sounds possible, although I know nothing about how the game works.

**Foot** · 07-16-2008, 18:45

Originally Posted by dominique

I was about to say, well tough luck wrong engine, but your post gave me a crazy idea.

I was thinking about Massalia and other cities who thrived while trading with the ''barbarian" hinterland and it popped up: a building - a trading post say - who could give a X tax bonus (not in %, but a flat bonus) per Eleutheroi provinces adjacent to your own. So it wouldn't be trade, but it would represent the income generated by that trade with the tribes. It's a building that would be good in the beginning of the game, but it's utility would drop as the eleutheroi is gradually conquered.

History wise, it would represent the great wealth that relatively small cities like Massilia, Tanais and Cyrene had, and it would explain their "decline" as the hinterland got settled. It would also explain why many empires (including Rome) would conquer a colonial polis and leave the hinterland alone for a hundred years.

Impossible to do.

Foot