Goodbye Italian Allies

[ajdeignan]

Hi All,

When should I stop using Samnites, Bruttians, Campanians for the allied contingent of my legions?

Then I'll start using regional troops (eg Greeks, Spanish, Gallic) instead, and all the Italian cities can start producing Roman troops (eg Hastati in Taras).

I've always played that all 'Roman' troops come from Rome. I've changed recruitment time to 0 (it means they still appear the next turn, but I can queue multiple units that all appear the next turn). I don't abuse this and only do 4 units when I need them (i.e. a legion of velite, hastati, principe, triarii). Capua supplies Campanian horse, Arpi supplies Samnites, etc, etc. This means that Arretium, Arrinium, haven't been producing any troops (except Pedite Extraordinarii and Equiti Extraordinarii), but that hasn't worried me.

Thank you.

[QuintusSertorius]

We're not entirely sure, given not a lot of historical focus was put on the allies. It's assumed they fought in a manner and with equipment broadly similar to that of the Romans. Which would make a lot of sense given they fought alongside them.

I personally use the Second Punic War as the signal that it's time to stop recruiting traditional-styled Italian units (Bruttians, Lucanians, Samnites, Campanians). Many of these communities defected to Hannibal, and thus weren't trusted with independent recruitment after the end of the war. Instead they were recruited in the Roman fashion.

In my Roman games, I have a series of "reforms", some of them roleplayed:
-Polybian Reform - usually around 240BC
-Change of Italian Allies - usually around 210BC
-Gracchan Reform - around the 130sBC

I haven't actually had a game survive long enough to get to the Marian reforms; my last one was killed by CTD in 133BC just as I was enacting my Gracchan reform.

I "provincialise" the provincial armies over time anyway, with the Italians being replaced by native troops. Usually at by changing the Left Ala for natives, and keeping the surviving Italians for merging into the Right Ala.

[Havok.]

Could you explain those three reforms a little bit more Quintus?
i'm quite curious about them, since i'm playing a Romani campaign as well and reforms are always welcome and refreshing

[QuintusSertorius]

Could you explain those three reforms a little bit more Quintus?
i'm quite curious about them, since i'm playing a Romani campaign as well and reforms are always welcome and refreshing

Polybian is the obvious one where your Roman units get switched out.

Change of allies is where I stop recruiting Samnites, Bruttians, Lucanians and Campanians. Their place in my infantry lines are taken by more Roman troops ("Romanised Italians"). So my first line is now four units of hastati, second four units of principes, skirmishers are two of velites and one accensi and one Gallic slinger, usually.

Gracchan reforms are when you stop recruiting hastati, so instead have eight units of principes. You can see there's gradual standardisation going on in the scheme of things.

[||Lz3||]

with the Gracchan you have 4 roman principes and 4 allied principes right?

A R R A
A R R A

A- Allied
R- Roman

[QuintusSertorius]

with the Gracchan you have 4 roman principes and 4 allied principes right?

A R R A
A R R A

A- Allied
R- Roman

Yep, exactly that. With a couple of units of triarii behind them. Optional whether one is Roman and one Allied; what I don't do is double up on triarii even though they're half-sized maniples. Waste of unit slots.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The Second Punic War is pretty much the end of independant Italic Recruitment. The Campanians in particular suffered after the Roman victory in Italia, the entire male population was slaughtered or sold into slavery and their cavalry completely ceased to exist.