Pathetic Historical Characters

[Matinius Brutus]

As to Magnus, great organiser and stratagist, but blinkered and only a respectable tactician. The suggestion that he wanted to sieze power is, I think, slander put about by Caesar. Let us not forget that Caesar was the rebel not Pompey and that Pompey had the backing of men like Cato and Cicero. He was also let down by his subordinates and as an Extraordinary Proconsul he was restricted by the will of the Consuls and Senate.

I meant that he could have reached for the dictatorship twice before that- at the peak of his glory and power, but he didn't. And it was no secret that he wanted to share power with no one and that is why he instigated the civil war with Caesar.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I meant that he could have reached for the dictatorship twice before that- at the peak of his glory and power, but he didn't. And it was no secret that he wanted to share power with no one and that is why he instigated the civil war with Caesar.

That is rubbish. There is no evidence Pompey wanted to be a dictator. There is a great deal of evidence he was frustrated with the Senate and the Republican system, such as his participation in the First Triumvirate but he used that arragement to secure land for his veterans and tellingly it broke down after that.

Pray tell in what manner did he instigate War with Caesar? I recall a law passed which prevented candidates standing for office in absentia but that's all that comes to mind off hand. Caesar was the rebel, Caesar crossed the Rubicon, Caesar assumed the dictatorship for life.

[QuintusSertorius]

Problem is Pompey was an average, pedestrian general, an absolutely brilliant organiser and administrator, and a political lightweight. Combine those with his directionless ambition and overweening pride and you've got a problematic brew.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Pompey was the right man at the wrong time, or the wrong man at the right time. A lot has been made of his defeat at Pharsallus (nowhere near as crushing as it is made out to be) and his death in Egypt. Relatively little is said about his raising of his own Legions when he joined Sulla, or his fighting Sertorius to a standstill in Spain. Even less is made of the way in which Augustus emulated him as much as Caesar at the start of his carear.

As a general he was, I think, better than average but when he fought Caesar he seems to have suffered from chronic self doubt, which is probably what lost the Republic the war.

As a politician I believe the Roman opinion was that he was a poor speaker, rather than a bad operator.

[QuintusSertorius]

Pompey was the right man at the wrong time, or the wrong man at the right time. A lot has been made of his defeat at Pharsallus (nowhere near as crushing as it is made out to be) and his death in Egypt. Relatively little is said about his raising of his own Legions when he joined Sulla, or his fighting Sertorius to a standstill in Spain. Even less is made of the way in which Augustus emulated him as much as Caesar at the start of his carear.

I'm not so certain he "fought Sertorius to a standstill" - he and Pius both lost repeatedly. Pompey made some really stupid mistakes, and was lucky to get away with it. Indeed were it not for the affection of his men, he wouldn't have managed to survive as long as he did in command.

Again yes he showed some initiative and more importantly organisational nous in raising and equipping his own men, and on the logistical side of things he was skillful. But in terms of tactical ability, he was nothing special. Sure he wasn't the sort to do anything stupid, but it's interesting that many of the clever little tactics he uses in the East are copies of ploys Sertorius fooled him with.

As a general he was, I think, better than average but when he fought Caesar he seems to have suffered from chronic self doubt, which is probably what lost the Republic the war.

Well in the case of Pharsalus, unfortunately Pompey's politican shortcomings scuppered him there. He was saddled with a pack-load of armchair generals who didn't have a clue about real command, yet kept on harrassing him to fight when his decided strategy would have worked.

As a politician I believe the Roman opinion was that he was a poor speaker, rather than a bad operator.

He wasn't simply a poor speaker, I don't think he was that canny an operator either. Years of being in sole command of an army without learning the vital skills of how to win people to your side and scheme will do that. It took alliance with two much slicker operators, Caesar and Crassus for him to achieve anything at Rome. He was wealthy, with a good name and reputation, but he really didn't know how to leverage them.

[General Appo]

Pray tell in what manner did he instigate War with Caesar? I recall a law passed which prevented candidates standing for office in absentia but that's all that comes to mind off hand.

Rubbish. By passing that law he presented Ceasar with a choice, march on Rome or face the courts and be exiled for ever, possible even worse. Unless he was an utter fool he must have known what Ceasar´s answer would be. True, Ceasar was the rebel, but Pompey (and let´s not forget Cato and the Senate) first forced him to become it.

[Zarax]

Not exactly a character but the Carthaginian senate was one of the assemblies that behaved most pathetically in history... Honestly they remind me of RTW senate...

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Rubbish. By passing that law he presented Ceasar with a choice, march on Rome or face the courts and be exiled for ever, possible even worse. Unless he was an utter fool he must have known what Ceasar´s answer would be. True, Ceasar was the rebel, but Pompey (and let´s not forget Cato and the Senate) first forced him to become it.

Why would he be exiled? Had he done anything wrong? Overstepped the bounds of his mandate maybe? Pompey actually placed an exception for Caesar into the law, which the Senate appear to have vetoed. May I remind you that a Consul does not make law, nor Veto it. Caesar was quite obviously aiming to become King of Rome, he was a Julian after all, and the Senate antagonised him, and they used Pompey to do it. Don't forget, Caesar could have returned earlier and been hailed as a hero. He didn't have to disobay the constitutional government. Caesar went against the Senate and hence against the City. Even after he won he wasn't able to change history enough to obscure his manifest guilt.