Re: You are safer without a knife
There are only two possible reasons not to run:Originally Posted by Adrian II
1) You are absolutely certain the other person can outrun you, so you are better off not turning your back on him and you might as well try your luck fighting
2) You are with somebody else who won't be able to get away, so by running you would be abandoning them to certain death
Anything else is nothing but pride.
"What, have Canadians run out of guns to steal from other Canadians and now need to piss all over our glee?"
- TSM
Re: You are safer without a knife
We're not talking about the military here, you don't need to organise a systematic retreat.
These gangs sniff out fear, if you run you spur them on, half the time they're only causing trouble for fun. If you are confident you can outrun them then obviously do so. But if you run and get caught with your back turned then you could be in deep trouble.
You are best to hold your ground and hope they back off. If they do not, it is much better to have a weapon than not to. It is of course a last resort.
In all honesty, knife crime is mostly caused by drunken idiots consumed in their pride.
But for non-drunkards, gangs are your main threat.
At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.
Re: You are safer without a knife
If they're doing it for fun, they're less likely to give chase. You ran away, they won the fight as far as they're concerned and that's all they're bothered about - looking tough in front of their friends. You stand there and get your own knife out, then you give the chavs something to prove.
If you carry a knife, you're an idiot. AKA, what Tribesman said.
Re: You are safer without a knife
I think whether running is a good plan depends a lot upon the nature of the conflict you're in. If someone threatened me with a knife and demanded my wallet, I reckon I would probably attempt to run, as chasing me down over a distance would seem a lot of trouble for a few quid, and they have no stake in actually hurting me per se-they just want my money. However, if the aggressor's objective seemed to be to injure/kill me, it would be far less clear cut.
As others have already pointed out, these stats are confounded by the fact that people who carry knifes are much more likely to be involved in nefarious activities that would increase your odds of getting stabbed. I would like to see a breakdown by type of knife carried, though. I imagine that the incidence of stabbings is far higher amongst people who carry Crocodile Dundee-style machetes than amongst people who carry little penknives.
Last edited by Big King Sanctaphrax; 07-18-2008 at 01:19.
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Re: You are safer without a knife
Well the number one self-defense tip of all time is....
Don't put yourself in such a situation you dolt.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: You are safer without a knife
Um, I don't carry a knife and I never suggested waving one about.
My point is that since running is not always an option, if you hold your ground there is a risk they will advance. And if they have a knife, and if they will outrun you, what do you do?
Wait for Mr. Brown's planned police forces to arrive?
At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.
Re: You are safer without a knife
The situation of someone pulling out any weapon on you, requires you to pull out a weapon that could easily kill both of you, thus the situation turns into MAD. I bought a lighter in L.A. that looks surprisingly like an Mk82 Fragmentation Grenade, never had to pull it out, but when I did to most of my friends they had this deer in the head lights like look, especially when I pulled the pin, pulled out a cigarette and lit it.
Re: You are safer without a knife
Me and Horetore agreeing? In a thread on weapons? I am aghast!Well the number one self-defense tip of all time is....
Don't put yourself in such a situation you dolt.
Anyways, the idea that a knife is useless in self defense, even against a group, is BS:
The idea that carrying a knife puts you in danger is stupid. Likely more just fools not understanding correlation (ie people who carry knives often are cut) with causation (they get cut because they participate in shady activities).Gay man freed in killing
By ALYSHA BRENNAN & THERESA CONROY
abrenna@phillynews.com
LUCAS Dawson began carrying a knife after being attacked while kissing his male lover in a South Philadelphia Park four years ago.
Now, after a second assault by gay bashers - one of whom he killed in self-defense - Dawson's thinking about getting a gun.
The 21-year-old was cleared yesterday of charges in the fatal stabbing of a 17-year-old boy who was among a group that attacked him near his East Mount Airy home on Oct. 29.
There was great relief at the Dawson home yesterday after the decision by a Municipal Court judge, but now the concern is his safety.
Last night, Dawson packed to leave home for fear of retaliation.
"I mean, seven guys jumped me, and one guy died," he said. "There's still six other people that want to hurt me.
"I fear for my safety, and that's why I'm moving away," he added. "I won't carry a knife on me anymore, but I am considering getting a gun permit."
David Diggs, the boyfriend of Lucas' mother, Lisa, said Lucas was not safe in the neighborhood any longer.
Lucas had been in jail since he was arrested after the stabbing of Gerald Knight, who was one of five to seven teens - all strangers to Dawson - who beat him and who he said called him a "faggot."
"My mom missed me while I was gone because I was always singin' up a storm," Dawson said.
Yesterday, he flashed a weary smile after Municipal Judge Gerard Kosin-ski dismissed the manslaughter charge.
Dawson, wisp-thin, frightened and frail, was released after the hearing.
Defense attorney Kevin Birley said Dawson had acted in self-defense.
"We can't forget that my client was a victim of a hate crime," Birley said.
"They wanted to hurt him. It wasn't that they were trying to get money or they had an argument with him," Birley said. "They simply wanted to hurt him so they kicked him and punched him... Even the first stab didn't stop the attack. It took a second stab to stop the attack."
Prosecutor M.K. Feeney said a jury should decide whether it was manslaughter or self-defense, but Kosinski disagreed.
"Looking at the circumstances here, I agree with the defense," Kosinski said after the preliminary hearing.
It was an unusual move for the district attorney's office to charge Dawson with voluntary manslaughter instead of a general murder charge. Feeney said in court that her office had made that decision after looking at all the facts.
"This is truly a tragic situation for everybody involved, and nobody should have to worry that when they walk down the street they should be attacked for their sexuality or any other reason," she said.
Dawson said the teens followed him as he headed for a bus stop. The teens taunted him for being gay and repeatedly threw a basketball at him, he said.
"One of them punched me in my lip," Dawson said in his statement. "Then, they all started punching me and knocked me to the ground. I was scared and I felt like if I didn't get up they would probably kill me. I felt a wave of strength and I got up... I took out the knife and waved it."
When Knight punched him, Dawson said he thrust the knife into his chest.
"I didn't think the knife went in because he kept punching me, so I stuck the knife in him again," Dawson said.
After the hearing, Diggs said the family felt sorry for the Knight family. "They lost their kid," he said.
The pain of that loss was evident on the face of Knight's father. When the judge announced the dismissal of charges, he exclaimed, "That's my son!" When approached outside the courtroom, he yelled angrily at a reporter, saying he didn't want to talk about his son.
"If you really wanted to know who he was, you should have come to the funeral," he shouted.
At the Dawson home yesterday, Lucas said, "I want to put this all behind me. My life has been turned upside down and I have to start over."
"It makes me sad," Dawson added. "I broke down in court today. I never wanted to hurt anybody... . I was trying to get these guys away from me.
"My mom said, 'You might feel bad about killing someone, but if you didn't have that knife, somebody would be knocking on my door telling me my son's dead.' "
Lisa Dawson, 40, said she is happy to have Lucas back at home, and is looking forward to finally being able to sleep through the night.
"I'm relieved," she said. "The air feels clean again."
Dawson says he'll continue pursuing an acting and modeling career. "When I was in prison, I got to thinking what I was going to do with my life," he said.
"I would like to help gay people so that this type of thing won't happen again," he said.
"It's just about ignorance, you know? I believe what you put out, you get back. And I want to give back."
Carrying a knife doesn't take away any options, it just adds some.
CR
Ja Mata, Tosa.
The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder
Re: You are safer without a knife
How much money do you carry in your wallet? Doesn't make sense to risk getting chased down and stabbed for a few bucks. Some people are just crazy.
Better yet, carry a cheapo alternate wallet with some money and an old ID in it.
Re: You are safer without a knife
Those two things are uncertain in most situations. So that's no guideline.
Me and a friend were waiting for a night bus around 1.00 am once, many moons ago, on a deserted road outside a village. It was the last bus, and I had to be home that night. We were 17 years old. Two guys about the same age and build as us came walking down the road and one of them started waving a knife at us, demanding money for their bus fare. We retreated, talked, 'negotiated', feigned to shrug the whole thing off - until the arrival of the bus saved us. Then the other guys ran, fearing that we or the bus driver would alert the police.
Of course we could have run. Or we could have been dead. Or we could have wrung the knife from the guy´s hand. Whatever.
I'm just telling you that in such situations nothing is clear-cut except for this: most senseis talk bollox (with compliments to Tribesman).
The bloody trouble is we are only alive when we’re half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott
Re: You are safer without a knife
Yes. Waiting for that bus was your way out of it
What you did was negotiate and stall the situation until a way out of it appeared. You did not escalate it by flashing a knife or whatever(ie. being aggressive), like the OP thinks you should.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: You are safer without a knife
The point was how many knife incidents has Caledonian been in and how does he get his views on the best thing to do in those situations .OK, I'll take the bait. What point are you driving at here Tribes?
My point being that carrying a knife for self defense is an extremely stupid thing to do .
Re: You are safer without a knife
I'm pretty sure Goofball is right here.
When you fight back you're entering dangerous terrain, that guy has usually fought more knife fights than you and you will inevitably get wounded when you might have been able to outrun him or he might have even been too lazy to run after you. If he's faster than you you can still turn around and try to surprise him.
I'm also not really sure how many people who just want some money from you want to murder you, but when you fight back with a knife to save your precious 30$ in your wallet, you're actually risking your life for those 30$.
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
Re: You are safer without a knife
Well from what I've found, if you are walking about on a nice day in clear sunlight then you are much more likely to be troubled by gangs looking for trouble than a mugger looking for your money.
And in those circumstances, running is just giving them the go-ahead to beat the crap out of you.
If you hold your ground, you are less likely to have a fight than if you insta-rout.
At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.
Re: You are safer without a knife
And flashing a knife is not going to make them want to kick your ass?
6 guys with weapons who wants to screw with someone, and the guy pulls a knife? That sounds like a challenge if you ask me. And with a 6-1 ratio, that means your ass is going down. Assuming you're not the Terminator.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
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