How to maximise the stability of your 1.1 game

[QuintusSertorius]

As people probably know by now, stability is a real issue for me since 1.1 came around. I seem to have the worst luck with permanent CTDs no matter what I do. So I figured perhaps it was time to get a definitive guide together on how to reduce the likelihood of these annoying events. A list of things to do, and things not to do to maximise the stability of your game.

I'd appreciate team member confirmation/disputation on any and all items, as I said I want this to be definitive.


Do:
-run a full virus scan and ensure your machine is clear of viruses and spyware before attempting installation
-uninstall all previous versions of EB before installation.
-uninstall RTW/BI and reinstall from clean before attempting to install EB
-ensure before installing EB that you've got a clean RTW 1.5 installation (including the 1.3 and 1.5 patches if you've got an old version of RTW, but not the 1.1 or 1.2 patches).
-install all the permanent fixes
-switch off the autosave in the preferences.txt (but remember you'll need to manually save regularly)
-quit the game every two or so hours (more about performance than stability - preventing the game balooning in memory)
-wait 10-15 seconds before clicking to ending a battle which takes place on the AI turn
-keep regular saves every 6-12 turns, and on different save files (not just overwriting the same one over and again).


Do Not:
-be running Windows Vista; if you must run it, don't install the game in Program Files
-install the game in your Program Files directory; that's for applications, not games. If you're really struggling, make a directory c:\games and install it there.
-install any optional fixes that haven't been verified to become permanent ones
-run anything in the background while EB is running
-load multiple saved games in the same EB session
-save during the AI turn, nor reload anything that happens during it
-leave the script un-activated at any time (unless you're checking if a problem repeats with the script off)
-kill an AI faction's Leader and Heir in the same battle (unless it's the faction's last settlement)


Some others I'm not sure about:
-Could Force Diplomacy be messing with the script every time it's used? I notice whenever you take a settlement off someone, the egg timer appears for a moment, which it doesn't with some other uses of FD.
-Does cutting out the client ruler section of the script undeniably make the game more stable? Or does it create any problems of it's own?
-Do any of the cheats, like move_character or create_unit cause bugs to happen if they're used correctly (ie not spawning units a faction can't actually recruit, or moving characters in settlements or currently laying siege to somewhere)? What about process_cq?
-Is there a maximum treasury figure, after which a faction becomes unstable if they've passed that number? I often add lots of money to the Eleutheroi faction.
-Does Alt+Tab-ing out of the game a lot affect stability? I use this a lot to get screenshots, particularly during battles.
-Does following AI movement make crashes more likely?

[bovi]

Do:
-uninstall all previous versions of EB before installation.
This is only necessary if you want to install into the same location. But yes, install EB into a clean 1.5 RTW.

-switch off the autosave in the preferences.txt
Reported to increase stability, yes, but possibly this will come back to bite you if the game crashes anyway. If you choose to disable autosave, you need to always save manually each turn to avoid losing "your work".

-quit the game every two or so hours
Possibly... But it's rumoured that saving and reloading often is a cause of corruption. I haven't noticed any difference personally, neither increased stability nor corruption.


Do Not:
-install the game in your Program Files directory; that's for applications, not games
A suggestion might be to install it into c:\Games, for those who can't think of where to put it.

-install any temporary fixes that haven't been verified to become permanent ones
This should read "install any optional fixes...". The temporary fixes are not temporary because they decrease stability, but because they disable features and/or will make multiplayer impossible.

-run anything in the background while EB is running
Hmm... I'm usually running lots, with no problems. It depends on what you're running I guess, as well as how much RAM you have.

-load multiple saved games in the same EB session
This could be rewritten to "Only play savegames from one campaign before quitting the game." This makes it clearer that it's loading different games that is the problem.

-leave the script un-activated at any time
Unless you're checking whether it does not crash when you do not activate the script.

-kill an AI faction's Leader and Heir in the same battle
Unless it's the last city of their faction.

Some others I'm not sure about:
-Does cutting out the client ruler section of the script undeniably make the game more stable? Or does it create any problems of it's own?
No, it's not undeniably. The evidence (not the least that of your own) seems to point it out as culprit though. The same reports state that the "optimized" script causes more problems.

-Do any of the cheats, like move_character or create_unit cause bugs to happen if they're used correctly (ie not spawning units a faction can't actually recruit, or moving characters in settlements or currently laying siege to somewhere)? What about process_cq?
-Is there a maximum treasury figure, after which a faction becomes unstable if they've passed that number? I often add lots of money to the Eleutheroi faction.
I don't know about these.

-Does Alt+Tab-ing out of the game a lot affect stability? I use this a lot to get screenshots, particularly during battles.
While I do not have any problems with this myself, there are reports that it crashes occasionally when alt-tabbing, yes. If you play in a window (-ne switch) you'll not have any problem with alt-tabbing, but it may run a bit slower.


The rest that I haven't commented, I agree with.

OTHER GUIDELINES
Keep savegames at regular intervals, such as every 6-12 turns. This way, if your game crashes persistently, you can roll back to an earlier save and hope the cause doesn't reoccur.

[Dumbass]

I save my game every turn, would that cause any problems?

[QuintusSertorius]

I save my game every turn, would that cause any problems?

Nope, it's apparently the autosave itself that's the source of the problem, not manual saves.

Though if you are saving every turn, you'd help yourself by turning it off.

[||Lz3||]

I hope I'm not screwed up already , I'm in 225 with the autosave on

I'm not sure about force diplomacy... so I'm doing something weird instead of that , I add myself money , hten gift it to the AI to force a deal , and then I take it off with add money , and to get settlements they should'nt be owning , I've a squad of horsemen that go all around europe auto_wining and destroying unwanted AI armies

I'm using all of th optional fixes with the exeption that I dissabled Client rulers as much as I could , but I'm still using generals (which by the way are getting the family member trait ) is that...dangerous? so to speak

[Skandinav]

I use FD to change settlements and all that jazz almost each turn and have had no stability problems at all.
I´ve only had one strange crashing save game but one could think it is rather related to my extensive use of move_character or create_unit, both of which I had just begun using to such a degree before the persistent crash, but since I´ve used them ever since and haven´t seen any irregularities that one occasion aside there might not be any connection whatsoever and the client ruler scripts might be what was causing it as I have come to suspect.

[MerlinusCDXX]

One thing I have noticed about using process_cq. Don't use it to repair any government buildings unless you want an immediate CTD. If you are repairing one of your own govenment buildings (I used to sometimes do this to avoid rebellion CTD's) in a settlement you lost for a turn or so, go ahead and repair it (important if it's a type 4 and the client ruler is still alive and entering the city), but let it repair in the "end turn" process like normal. Make sure you do a manual save before doing anything like repairing gov't buildings. I've been giong about it this way for a little while and it seems to cut down the # of (non-recurring ) CTD's in my games.

[Bellum]

-kill an AI faction's Leader and Heir in the same battle (unless it's the faction's last settlement)

Sorry if it's obvious, but why does that cause problems?

[QuintusSertorius]

One thing I have noticed about using process_cq. Don't use it to repair any government buildings unless you want an immediate CTD. If you are repairing one of your own govenment buildings (I used to sometimes do this to avoid rebellion CTD's) in a settlement you lost for a turn or so, go ahead and repair it (important if it's a type 4 and the client ruler is still alive and entering the city), but let it repair in the "end turn" process like normal. Make sure you do a manual save before doing anything like repairing gov't buildings. I've been giong about it this way for a little while and it seems to cut down the # of (non-recurring ) CTD's in my games.

I used to get that regularly, but it doesn't seem to happen any more with my cut-down script.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Sorry if it's obvious, but why does that cause problems?

By the rules of the game *both* the heir & the leader positions need be passed along the family tree. But apparently RTW struggles with passing both along *at the same time*; as if the game tries to assign the Faction Leader position to the Heir (now dead) and then concludes a terribly embarrasing mistake must've been made upon which it decides to comit suicide out of shame...
(It likely can't assign traits to dead people and is likely not programmed to catch this when handing down the crown... <_<)

However at the last settlement the entire faction is wiped out so that's apparently not an issue anymore.

[Tellos Athenaios]

-Do any of the cheats, like move_character or create_unit cause bugs to happen if they're used correctly (ie not spawning units a faction can't actually recruit, or moving characters in settlements or currently laying siege to somewhere)? What about process_cq?
-Is there a maximum treasury figure, after which a faction becomes unstable if they've passed that number? I often add lots of money to the Eleutheroi faction.
I don't know about these.

move_character "character_name"

This is an incorrect line of code, but will "be accepted" by the console. Not so by the game though: it will render your 'agent' (the character this is invoked on) invisible! You can 'get him back' by (immediately) specifying a valid invocation of the cheat.

create_units [args]

Giving units a particular faction does not 'own' ('can't recruit by default') which aren't mercs in the true sense (for hire as mercs in the game itself) will cause a CTD if you try them on the battlefield. Reason: for a unit to work on the battlefield a faction must have a slot assigned on the model, with the exception of mercs - these take the special merc slot. So factions that can't recruit unit X by default will not 'have' the required code dealing with the model & skins. However, auto-calc appears to work out fine regardless (see Q.S.'s thread asking about this earlier). If you 'recruited' them yourself this way; your best bet is to immediately disband them.

[Ludens]

-quit the game every two or so hours
Possibly... But it's rumoured that saving and reloading often is a cause of corruption. I haven't noticed any difference personally, neither increased stability nor corruption.

The memory leak introduced by patch 1.3 was only significant in people who didn't have a lot of RAM. I have 1 GB and never noticed it in either vanilla or EB.

-install the game in your Program Files directory; that's for applications, not games
A suggestion might be to install it into c:\Games, for those who can't think of where to put it.

Pardon me for being dense, but why is this a problem? I have all my games installed there. I use XP, by the way.

-Does Alt+Tab-ing out of the game a lot affect stability? I use this a lot to get screenshots, particularly during battles.
While I do not have any problems with this myself, there are reports that it crashes occasionally when alt-tabbing, yes. If you play in a window (-ne switch) you'll not have any problem with alt-tabbing, but it may run a bit slower.

I haven't noticed any instability as result of alt-tabs, although it was said to cause instability in multiplayer with R:TW 1.2 (I haven't played MP since then). I do recommend using FRAPS for taking screenshots.

[QuintusSertorius]

It causes problems in Vista, but it's still bad file management to put anything besides proper applications in Program Files. You should have a separate folder for games, and only install them there. Less chance of messing things up with it separate.

[mcantu]

i dunno...i always install under Program Files and never had a problem (using Vista w/UAC turned off). i'm pretty sure games are still considered applications...

[Dumbass]

I don't understand how installing games to program files increases chances of messing things up?

[Ludens]

It causes problems in Vista, but it's still bad file management to put anything besides proper applications in Program Files. You should have a separate folder for games, and only install them there. Less chance of messing things up with it separate.

Yes, I have my games installed in a separate folder. That folder is inside program files, because they are programs, and most installers point to program files. If this doesn't affect stability, I suggest you it remove from the list (except for Vista, off course).

[bovi]

It's easier to say "don't install RTW/EB into Program Files" than explain that yes, you can install and run it under program files, but not if you're using Vista and have UAC on. There is freaking always a follow-up question "Why?" and/or "What is UAC" and/or "How do I turn it off" and/or "Why is it on" and/or "What does UAC do".

For the record: UAC is User Access Control. It is Vista's way of making sure that applications don't store their user data inside Program Files, by rerouting requests from applications (and games) to write files there to instead write to that user's Documents and Settings. This will enhance security so that other users can't see the files stored by you (except the Administrator, of course). It will also screw up RTW, at least when coupled with EB. I do not know how to turn it off as I don't have Vista. It is on by default because Microsoft wants to hold your hand, and also because it's actually a good idea that just doesn't work with EB for some reason.

[LorDBulA]

it's actually a good idea that just doesn't work with EB for some reason.

It doesn't work with EB because RTW was not designed for Vista (no surprise there since there was no Vista when RTW was made ).

[Tellos Athenaios]

Typically there ought not to be a problem; problems only arise if the program doesn't "understand" the "new meaning" of the words "Program Files" under Vista. Vista implements the idea you install programs separately from their configuration files, so that there is some basic protection for the program settings. This has been the code of conduct for Linux etc. platforms for many years already; so it's nothing new to get upset over. Point is that it's the job of the OS to keep the configuration files tidied up in a proper location (usually the user's home directory as that allows for per-user settings) and the program is expected to refer to its AppData only (apart from ini files). RTW was designed without the whole concept of "AppData" and fails to adapt to the new rules; meaning that to install & run it in Program Files while this security mechanism is still active means blowing it.

Turning the UAC off permanently before installing RTW may "fix" this but it also involves running other security risks. Because it's not just the only thing UAC does to protect your computer.

[QuintusSertorius]

In fact it would help a lot if the installer didn't automatically try to point some elements of 1.1 at Program Files by default.

[bovi]

I thought it put <your RTW path> as default?

[QuintusSertorius]

I thought it put <your RTW path> as default?

For EB itself; if I'm remembering right, some of the ancillaries like the Recruitment Viewer and Unit Compare point at Program Files.

[mcantu]

In fact it would help a lot if the installer didn't automatically try to point some elements of 1.1 at Program Files by default.

it does this because this is the default directory that RTW installs in...

[Tellos Athenaios]

For EB itself; if I'm remembering right, some of the ancillaries like the Recruitment Viewer and Unit Compare point at Program Files.

Which are 'entirely seperate' of RTW and can quite easily function without even a working EB installed. So... what's the point? I mean these are just "viewers" and in the case of the "Unit Documentation" not even that (it is just a set of documents; you still need a browser to 'run' it); not like these even try to store configuration files in Program Files or AppData ...

[Hax]

Windows Vista is just evil altogether. Keep asking my permission for everything.

Anyways, does Vista make RTW more unstable?

[mcantu]

Windows Vista is just evil altogether. Keep asking my permission for everything.

Anyways, does Vista make RTW more unstable?

disable UAC and it will stop asking permission...

[Skandinav]

-Does Alt+Tab-ing out of the game a lot affect stability? I use this a lot to get screenshots, particularly during battles.

In the unpatched ( and early patched ) version of RTW you were bound to crash when returning to the game from the desktop, this has been greatly improved on since but I think it is still likely to happen, at least I have had a few such occurances when playing EB on RTW.exe and BI.exe, but I believe the rumour that Alex.exe are more stable in this regard to be true, at least I haven´t had a single case of Alt+Tab instability with that exe.

Edit: But why, sir, if I may ask, do you not use Fraps or something similar for screenshots ? It is just F10 or whatever key you assign it to, to take screenshots, then it stores them all in a folder also predesignated by you and in the file-type and quality of your wish.

[Blazing141]

Hi all,
How do I disable autosave? I edited preferences.txt and set autosave to false, but it still autosaves before and after battles. Very annoying, because inevitably after a large battle (usually after I win a heroic victory) EB crashes -- I have a suspicion that the autosave might be the problem.

Is turning it off save-game compatible?

[Atraphoenix]

performing alt+tabbing since my campaign started cos I need my screenshots for my AAR .
Fraps misses some screenshot for example battle reports which is very important.

yes I had a CTD to repair by process_cq.

ı havent cancel autosave yet but i will .

What about ctr+s namely "quicksave" advisable or not?

I mostly get CTD in battle screen "a CTD to repair by process_cq." is exception.

I was about to throw my PC out of window when I won a battle that lasted more than 1 hour with 2000 men I had defeated 3200 enemy...

P.S. if you use frasp you shoul see that battle reports and some missing important screenshot are inevitable...

and last thing I killed a heir and also faction leader without killing them both but ı had not get any CTD.