What, no Russia?

[Sheogorath]

So, having a look around, it seems that Russia is no longer a playable faction, but merely 'confirmed' as being in the game. Which means, if we look at previous TW games, that their units will consist solely of generic 'everyfaction' units, and pretty much their only purpose will be to get overrun by the player.
I, for one, find it rather upsetting that one of the most interesting powers of the period, indeed, later in the games historical time period, one of the GREAT powers, has been, essentially, cut.
I guess this means no Pavlovsk grenadiers, Cossacks, grand batteries, and shouts of 'UUURAH!' prior to launching a bayonet charge against the other sides curassiers.

I cant psychically read the minds of the dev's, so, please, what's the reason for not making Russia a playable faction?
While they werent a great colonizer, they were a major player in European events, the upstart power of the era with Peter the Great, the Greath Northern War signaling a shift in the balance of power of Eastern and Northern Europe, and the founding of the worlds largest modern, continuous, land empire.
Maybe they arent quite as well known as the British or Spanish Empires, but it was the Russians that marched into Paris, defeated Charles XII in a two-front war against two of the strongest powers of the time, first employed the concept of massed artillery fire, and were well known for their stubborn resolve when it came to fighting. Also, Cossacks. Really, who DOESNT want to see Cossacks? I know the Ottmans 'employed' them occasionally, but as far as I know, the Russian Empire was the first to really use them in the actual military on a large scale (aside from the Cossacks themselves, of course).

I find it rather amusing that, in the previous TW games that Russia was, while underdeveloped as a faction, at least made playable. Given that they had little impact on European affairs in the time periods (aside from being a minor speedbump to the Mongols on their way to central Europe), yet, once Russia is a major power, they are relegated to the role of minor faction.

'Tis a strange thing, I think.

[CBR]

CA has not released that much info on the campaign yet. I would be a bit surprised if Russia is not a playable faction.


CBR

[Sheogorath]

CA has not released that much info on the campaign yet. I would be a bit surprised if Russia is not a playable faction.


CBR

http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic...Total-War.html

Specifically:

Nations:
Playable: between 9 - 12.
-Britain
-Prussia
-France
-Spain
-America: Become a founding father. Control the fate of the United States of America, from its revolution against the British to overcoming the challenges of a young independent nation.
-Ottoman Empire
-Austria
-Holland

Confirmed:
- Sweden
- Russia
- Venice
- Spain
- Poland-Lithuania.

Non-playable: approximatly 40.

Listing Russia under the 'confirmed' while Spain and Holland are listed as 'playable' is a bit odd, at least, to me. Which isnt to say that Spain and Holland werent important players, but in the time period of this game they generally stuck to economic dealings and let the big five knock each other around.

[CBR]

Well I'd say we are really still waiting for the juicy campaign stuff. We have not yet seen any pics of the campaign map. Maybe CA is not including Russia or maybe they are waiting to reveal more info at say Leipzig. To not include Russia would be very odd, so I am inclined to think it is more likely that it is just marketing.

But OK you never know with CA...


CBR

[Quintus.JC]

They're probably unlockable once you complete the campaign. I for one would find it a great injustice if Russia was made into a non-playable faction.

[rajpoot]

Either it has to be unlockable or you can look at the info in this way, that while the factitons on top are confirmed playable, the other are confirmed but nothing is there to say that they are not playable. Be optimistic. Russia will be playable. Having it otherwise is simple impossible!

[Sheogorath]

As CBR said (Madness!), this is CA, however. They might not've been able to think of a suitably silly fantasy unit for Russia >_>

Ah, well, one can always hope. I've always wanted to give the Russians a proper go at Constantinople. They tried so many times and never seemed to be able to make it.
That and Russian India just has an nice ring to it ;)

[Geoffrey S]

Holland? That's just the one province - I presume it will be Dutch Republic, or United (Dutch) Provinces?

[Zarky]

Holland? That's just the one province - I presume it will be Dutch Republic, or United (Dutch) Provinces?

Well People in Holland are Dutch.... So it doesn´t really matter what you call it ^^

And if they don´t Include Russia even as unlockable, that would be big mistake. I don´t really see "Russian India" or anything but they were major force in Europe, not just run-over like M2TW Russia is (as AI, real player can make miracles with Russians )

[Sheogorath]

Well People in Holland are Dutch.... So it doesn´t really matter what you call it ^^

And if they don´t Include Russia even as unlockable, that would be big mistake. I don´t really see "Russian India" or anything but they were major force in Europe, not just run-over like M2TW Russia is (as AI, real player can make miracles with Russians )

Its more likely than you think :P

The later half of the 19th century was dedicated to the Great Game (or Tournament of Shadows, if you're Russian), where Russia and the UK struggled for domination of Central Asia, most likely as a pathway for the Russians to gain access to India and threaten British interests.
Of course, nothing ever really came of it because Afghanistan was in the way and Iran was still too strong and too far away to easily take over for both sides.

Of course, Russia DID have one of the largest fleets in Europe. Third largest during the Napoleonic Wars, if I remember right, just after France.

[Quintus.JC]

Russia was obviously a major power in the 18th - 19th century. They contested wit the Ottoman and successfully resisted Napolean, not to mention a couple of great monarchs and generals, but didn't know they had a significant navy though.

[nameless]

St. Petersburg which was to allow Russia to establish a fleet was established in the 18th century.

There's no way Russia cannot be in the game.

As CBR said (Madness!), this is CA, however. They might not've been able to think of a suitably silly fantasy unit for Russia >_>

I notice a lot of people throwing this "fantasy" word around. Makes me wonder if they even know the meaning of these words.

Are you stating that there are pixies and mermaids in the game?

[pevergreen]

I am certain there will be another desc_strat that we can mod to play the other factions. No big deal.

[CBR]

I notice a lot of people throwing this "fantasy" word around. Makes me wonder if they even know the meaning of these words.

Are you stating that there are pixies and mermaids in the game?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fantasy

Fantasy does not have to mean faeries, magic etc.


CBR

[nameless]

http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/fantasy.html

For a lack of a better term anyways.

I doubt CA is going to put in russian bears and super soldiers. Flaming pigs and war dogs had at least some basis in history (even if it was minimal).

[Faenaris]

It would surprise me if Russia isn't playable from the start. Keep in mind that the list you posted, Sheogorath, says "9-12" playable nations (some previews stated 9, others 12) and that only 8 are confirmed as being certain. That still leaves 1 to 4 nations that have to be confirmed. Don't rule out the Russian bear just yet.

[Sheogorath]

It would surprise me if Russia isn't playable from the start. Keep in mind that the list you posted, Sheogorath, says "9-12" playable nations (some previews stated 9, others 12) and that only 8 are confirmed as being certain. That still leaves 1 to 4 nations that have to be confirmed. Don't rule out the Russian bear just yet.

Still, makes me a bit wary when stuff like that comes up. I mean, CA has been known to occasionally, ah, make 'odd' descisions.

I notice a lot of people throwing this "fantasy" word around. Makes me wonder if they even know the meaning of these words.

Are you stating that there are pixies and mermaids in the game?

Pixies for France, mermaids for the British, and bear cavalry for the Russians! Hotness.

[LadyAnn]

You over react, confirmed just means it is playable and someone asked if it was playable and it was confirmed it is. Noone asked if Britain is playable, because of course it should be playable.

Even though I am not particular about Poland-Lithuania and Venice, I must say that Nederland (Holland), Sweden and Russia are safe bet to be included. Without Sweden and Russia, who gonna fight the Great Northern Wars? Without the Dutch, along with Spain and oddly enough, France, who will rival with England at sea?

Anniep

[Mikeus Caesar]

Shto, otsutstvye Russia?

Yay for incredibly bad translations.

[geala]

I don't understand the discussion. I'm not a native speaker, but "confirmed" seems to me a synonym for "pretty sure to be in". Perhaps I'm misunderstanding.

They have Peter the Great and Elisabeth the Great in the game, beneath Napoleon, Wellington, Charles XII. et al. So why do you think Russia is not a playable nation?

[Quintus.JC]

They have Peter the Great and Elisabeth the Great in the game, beneath Napoleon, Wellington, Charles XII. et al. So why do you think Russia is not a playable nation?

Not to mention Catherine II
.

[LadyAnn]

Sensory depravation is what leads to this thread :)

Being fed piecemeal about the game, the community halucinate about everything.

Annie

[Puzz3D]

Sensory depravation is what leads to this thread :)

Being fed piecemeal about the game, the community halucinate about everything.

Annie

I'm glad to see that you're not getting suckered by the oh so clever PR from CA.

[Sheogorath]

I don't understand the discussion. I'm not a native speaker, but "confirmed" seems to me a synonym for "pretty sure to be in". Perhaps I'm misunderstanding.

They have Peter the Great and Elisabeth the Great in the game, beneath Napoleon, Wellington, Charles XII. et al. So why do you think Russia is not a playable nation?

Paranoia and CA's treatment of Russia in their games thus far >_>


Just to clarify once again,

My main fear was that, being 'confirmed' Russia would be like Dacia (or was it Scythia?), Thrace, or the other 'non-playable' (IE: You had to edit that one file to make them playable) factions. No unique units, a very small inventory of units overall, and generally a very clear intention that they were never meant to be playable anyway.

Of course, there are other issues as well. They might give Russia the treatment they got in Imperial Glory, with horrible income, horrible units, and so on. I found it rather amusing that a nation which was famous for relying on quantity over quality had issues raising more than two or three regiments.
Meanwhile, the British apparently had the official 'Best at Everything' award, and could easily trounce pretty much anybody who got in their way.
Of course, thats where the one GOOD thing about IG got in the way. The diplomacy system was pretty damn good. Too bad nothing else was.

My apologies for the off-topic rant, but IG was one of those games that had me really excited, then bitterly disappointed me :P

[TenkiSoratoti_]

Russia should have been a dead cert. from the start... surely.

"The 13 Colonies over Russia? WHAT!!!??"

Very odd.

[Fate]

Paranoia and CA's treatment of Russia in their games thus far >_>


Just to clarify once again,

My main fear was that, being 'confirmed' Russia would be like Dacia (or was it Scythia?), Thrace, or the other 'non-playable' (IE: You had to edit that one file to make them playable) factions. No unique units, a very small inventory of units overall, and generally a very clear intention that they were never meant to be playable anyway.

Of course, there are other issues as well. They might give Russia the treatment they got in Imperial Glory, with horrible income, horrible units, and so on. I found it rather amusing that a nation which was famous for relying on quantity over quality had issues raising more than two or three regiments.
Meanwhile, the British apparently had the official 'Best at Everything' award, and could easily trounce pretty much anybody who got in their way.
Of course, thats where the one GOOD thing about IG got in the way. The diplomacy system was pretty damn good. Too bad nothing else was.

My apologies for the off-topic rant, but IG was one of those games that had me really excited, then bitterly disappointed me :P

Speaking of IG, im off to play it now, and incidently, ive been absoloutely kicking ass as russia. Anihilated the Austrians, and well into north africa and central europe.
IG is really one of those games where you need the patience to turtle early games otherwise youll get no where.
However the one thing i do really like about it as mentioned earlier is the AI and diplomacy - ALLIANCES ARE ACTUALLY KEPT! its strange to think of it! :P

[rajpoot]

IG decent diplomacy system. Everything else, terrible.
Why the real time battles which should be the mainstay are depressingly bad, I'd bought the game recently as to warm up for ETW, couldn't get myself to play through a single full length game.
I just hope that naval combat in ETW is nothing like IG. I could never manage more than one ship.

[fenir]

Noobs, no such things have been said.


Sheogorath, go drink more vodka, and start screaming like a little girl when CA confirm it.


NO FACTION IS UNPLAYABLE. from pas experiance, it takes no longer than 32 secs, to make a faction playable.

Grow up children, engage brain. CA has said none of this. As usual Sheogorath is on his "every game scream again", same bat time, same bat channel.

Sheogorath .............. Settle Petal.


NOTE: Actually in the time period, Great Britian Actually does have the best of everything. Leads in military technology. Industrial capacity. certianly the Richest nation on earth until 1950.


Sincerely

fenir

[Sheogorath]

Speaking of IG, im off to play it now, and incidently, ive been absoloutely kicking ass as russia. Anihilated the Austrians, and well into north africa and central europe.
IG is really one of those games where you need the patience to turtle early games otherwise youll get no where.
However the one thing i do really like about it as mentioned earlier is the AI and diplomacy - ALLIANCES ARE ACTUALLY KEPT! its strange to think of it! :P

As was said, diplomacy was one of the very few good things about IG.

I'm usually a turtler myself, but it takes waaaaaay to long to get to the 'fun' part of IG for me.

Noobs, no such things have been said.

Noob, read the thread.

Sheogorath, go drink more vodka,

I prefer IBC cream soda. Not much of a drinker, myself.

and start screaming like a little girl when CA confirm it.

Confirm what? ETW has gone gold? I think everybody here with scream with varying degrees of girlishness when that happens.

NO FACTION IS UNPLAYABLE. from pas experiance, it takes no longer than 32 secs, to make a faction playable.

Please do read the topic.

Grow up children, engage brain. CA has said none of this.

I havent said CA has said anything. If you would, carefully, read the topic, I am quite clear that what I am saying is speculation. Perhaps it would be a good idea to reflect on the merits of reading comprehension prior to making personal attacks.

As usual Sheogorath is on his "every game scream again", same bat time, same bat channel.

Drow, drow, drow your canoe
The stream provides flotation
Hysterically, hysterically, hysterically, hysterically
Existence is hallucination.

Sheogorath .............. Settle Petal.

And if I refuse?

NOTE: Actually in the time period, Great Britian Actually does have the best of everything.

Hmmmm, nope.

Leads in military technology.

Nope. Both Spain and France built better and bigger ships than Britain. The Prussians made better guns and the Austrians built the best cannons in Europe. Poland and France had superior cavalry. British strength lay in the sheer size of the Royal Navy.

Industrial capacity

I dont think so, Tim. Most of the great powers had roughly equal 'industrial capacity' until the 1830's/40's when the second industrial revolution got into swing. The British certainly had more advanced textile industries, however. But Prussia, for example, had a far more developed arms industry.

certianly the Richest nation on earth until 1950.

Wrong.
In the early 1800's France had the largest GDP in Europe (based on estimates, of course.), and China had far more money than any European nation until the Opium wars.
The British GDP wasnt the largest in the world unitl the 1870's, and was surpassed by the US shortly after WWI.

[pevergreen]

Keep it civilised gentlmen.

Just be thankful there isnt a Mod here yet.

Fenir, I would seriously consider rereading ever post before you made it, if I was you. I am hoping this once off abusive post is just that. A once off.