Jan III Sobieski

[King Jan III Sobieski]

Does anyone know of any books or videos (in ANY language, albeit...I'd prefer English ) about the great Jan III Sobieski.

[cegorach]

I doubt you know Polish otherwise you wouldn't start this thread at all.


About Sobieski - if I remember correctly there was only one major (and available) movie where he played some important part:

"Pan Wolodyjowski" of 'Fire in the Steppe' (english title).

Some videos from it - the last one includes our hero - he is NOT the most important character in the movie, though.

http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...1stassault.flv

http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...elbreached.flv

http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...ent=theend.flv


The movie was made in the 1960s, as you will notice, but the castle assaults look fine + there is the organ gun.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

I doubt you know Polish otherwise you wouldn't start this thread at all.


About Sobieski - if I remember correctly there was only one major (and available) movie where he played some important part:

"Pan Wolodyjowski" of 'Fire in the Steppe' (english title).

Some videos from it - the last one includes our hero - he is NOT the most important character in the movie, though.

http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...1stassault.flv

http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...elbreached.flv

http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...ent=theend.flv


The movie was made in the 1960s, as you will notice, but the castle assaults look fine + there is the organ gun.

How do you know he doesn't know any Polish history, you asked him ?



Intersting Movie. I did hear about it, never got around to watching it.Enjoy the clips :-).

[cegorach]

How do you know he doesn't know any Polish history, you asked him ?



Intersting Movie. I did hear about it, never got around to watching it.Enjoy the clips :-).

Not the history, but the LANGUAGE. ;)

[King Jan III Sobieski]

I doubt you know Polish otherwise you wouldn't start this thread at all.


About Sobieski - if I remember correctly there was only one major (and available) movie where he played some important part:

"Pan Wolodyjowski" of 'Fire in the Steppe' (english title).

Some videos from it - the last one includes our hero - he is NOT the most important character in the movie, though.

http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...1stassault.flv

http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...elbreached.flv

http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...ent=theend.flv


The movie was made in the 1960s, as you will notice, but the castle assaults look fine + there is the organ gun.

Is that the one directed by Jerzy Hoffman?

I work for a DVD retailer and remember seeing the Sienkiewicz Trilogy and never really realized what the movies were about!

There's no decent biography of Jan III in English, is there?

[cegorach]

It is from the first movie which is based on the last part of the trilogy - for political reasons only the Ottomans as the enemies were bearable to the communist regime in the 1960s and contrary to the second movie (and 2nd part of the original trilogy) there is little catholic spiritual part in this part of the Sienkiewicz Trilogy. That is why it was filmed first.



About a decent biography of Sobieski - I really doubt that, though in Polish I have read books written originally by French and German authors about this commander and king so there is a chance something was translated to English as well.
After all Clausewitz wrote about Sobieski too and he is considered to be the most famous Polish general of the historical period - in Poland and abroad, and the best one probably...

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Not the history, but the LANGUAGE. ;)

Ah, yea, I know he wasn't good in Polish the Language




Been trying to look for the Movie online, but could not find it lately.

[KrooK]

Gah cegorach - I don't think he was best polish commander of XVII century. Come on - there were many betters. Sobieski IMO was just professional Turk/Tatar killer.

[cegorach]

Yes, I think he WAS THE BEST - and I am ready to discuss it in details.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Yes, I think he WAS THE BEST - and I am ready to discuss it in details.

Will Argee with you Cegorach

But from what I read, I was somewhat surprise he would try to ally with the Ottomans against Austria/Brandenburg.

[cegorach]

Why ? His idea to destroy Brandenburg and get Eastern Prussia was very wise - actually up to 1676 it was still possible, but the Swedes allowed the Brandenburgians to defeat them and the Ottomans were too stubborn to give up which left him no choice.

As far as I know the idea was to beat the Brandenburg first and later either move against Russia (to reclaim Ukraine and Smolensk) or the Austrians (to get Silesia).

But that all was politics - as a general he was most likely the most talented in the entire history of Poland - the battle at Chocim in 1673 or the 'chambul' campaign were incredible.
I am sure he would beat the Swedes or the Austrians too if he got a chance - it is enough to know his earlier victories and the way he suprised the German allies in the idea how to win the battle at Vienna.
Viena was rather less impressive of his victories.

If I would have to compare him with other excellent Polish commanders at that tiem he would still win overall - even against such talents as Chodkiewicz, Zamoyski, Koniecpolski, Janusz or Krzysztof 'Thunderbolt' Radziwill and others...

[KrooK]

Heh Cegorach i don't have as much time as you to study history so I can't face you when talking about details. All in all not everyone has so good :)

But Chodkiewicz remained undefeated when Sobieski lost some important battles (like Matwy).
I agree that Ukrainian campaign into 1672 was great but war into Inflanty was as good as it.

[cegorach]

Chodkiewicz lost the battle at Moscow (1612), though it was due to some real bad luck - still the ill-prepared Moscow campaign in 1617 wasn't the best, apparently.

Sobieski lost at Matwy, but at that time was was a very inexperienced commander, the muskets of the dragoons got wet and he was hesitant to fight the rebels (they were not...) - mind the battle at Guzów to see the difference - rarely there is a clash where both sides try not to kill each other... ;)

Sobieski would get my vote as the best Polish commander for the 'czambul' campaign, battles at Lwów and Chocim - all of those were extraordinary. Not to mention the things he managed to achive in Ukraine - real masterpieces of tactical and strategical commanship.
I would say that Chodkiewicz was a better tactician, but worse at strategy than Sobieski.

Of course the prize for the greatest slaughter would go to Chodkiewicz ( Kircholm 6000-9000 dead Swedish soldiers to 125-160 Polish) and he was the only commander of all those who was able to win a naval battle - something interesting too.

Still Sobieski would get better overall score, I am quite sure.

I think it is much easier to prepare a list of the great commanders than to name who is better, after all Zamoyski, Zólkiewski, Rewera-Potocki, all three Radziwills, Czarniecki, Lubomirski, Koniecpolski, Chmielecki, Wisniowiecki and others were all good at something.

[KrooK]

Heh nice idea.

[King Jan III Sobieski]

http://www.dvdempire.com/Exec/v4_ite...4279&searchID=

[cegorach]

Not bad, though it is 3 times more expensive 2,5 times ( dollar is very weak these days) than here.

[King Jan III Sobieski]

Not bad, though it is 3 times more expensive 2,5 times ( dollar is very weak these days) than here.

Dang, all I have is about 3 zloty at home...

[Azi Tohak]

How about copies of the Kuniczak translation of the Sienkiewicz trilogy? I devouerd all three over a year ago, but I've never had any luck finding them to buy for myself. I love those books! (My 100,000 person city's library had them... somehow.)

Azi

[King Jan III Sobieski]

What's public opinion of Jan III in Poland? Is he of the same stature of people like George Washington (granted, Americans typically don't give such leaders nearly as much credit as they deserve - but you get my point). Or is it just like - oh, he won some battles and died a long time ago, that's nice.

Needless to say...I'm a big fan.

[cegorach]

What's public opinion of Jan III in Poland? Is he of the same stature of people like George Washington (granted, Americans typically don't give such leaders nearly as much credit as they deserve - but you get my point). Or is it just like - oh, he won some battles and died a long time ago, that's nice.

Needless to say...I'm a big fan.

Errr... He is one of the most famous and best known Polish kings.

It is hard to name all the places named after Sobieski - streets in many towns, several monuments, numerous schools and other places.

Currently the best division of the Polish army has Jan III Sobieski as their patron - I mean the 11th Armoured Cavalry Division (it consists of : the 10th Armoured Cavalry Brigade - patron general Sanislaw Maczek, 34th Armoured Cavalry Brigade - patron Crown Grand Hetman and Chancellor Jan Zamoyski and 17th Greaterpoland's Mechanized Brigade - patron general Józef Dowbor-Musnicki).


He is famous for sure as a commander and writer - his love letters are a part of literature studies in the secondary school.

From the kings of old he is one of those who we know the best.


Historians and history enthusiasts in general agree he was a superb commander, but really unlucky politician - most likely because of the terrible reign of the previous rulers - Michal Korybut Wisniowiecki and Jan II Kazimierz.

[King Jan III Sobieski]

I've recently purchased a copy (an old copy) of Colonel John Sobieski's memoirs. My question is...is his genealogy for real? Is he really decended from King Jan III.?

[GodWillsIt]

Sobieski, King of Poland by Morton, J. B. It was written in the 30's but that was the only english book i could find on him...you would also have to pay $70-$120 USD for it from an antique book dealer.

[King Jan III Sobieski]

Sobieski, King of Poland by Morton, J. B. It was written in the 30's but that was the only english book i could find on him...you would also have to pay $70-$120 USD for it from an antique book dealer.

Thank ye.