Change religion to culture.

[Slim_Ghost]

I have an idea. Why don't you guys convert religion in MT2W into culture in EBII?In this way, only regional units can recruited if the native culture is low,and conversely the native units can be recruited if the native culture is 90% or greater. Cultures can change through holding a settlement for a period of time, like in MT2W: Britannia. So instead of governments one would have to wait for several years, or decades if the settlement is very distant from the faction homeland, in order to recruit local units.

I feel this adds to realism, as I really think that if a faction takes over a settlement after a long enough given time, then surely they must be able to recruit some local units, after their peoples have settled into those lands. Just like after Megas Alexandros conquered Asia, units of Greek ethnicity can be recruited from those areas.

As Sweboz I have captured Rome for over a century and a half. Realistically, the Germanic peoples would be migrate to the massacred cities of Italy from my now overpopulated cities back in Germania and Scandanavia. It's ridiculous historically that I can't recruit any Germanic units even now, as if there are NO Germanic people in Rome despite a century in Germanic rule. I mean, come on!

In the meanwhile, I can recruit Alan Nobles in Pella in my Sauromatae campaign, Apparently the Sarmatians can migrate to whatever cities they want (and in a bloody short time too), but the Sweboz can't.

[Cartaphilus]

I agree with all of that.



Is this the use for the "priests" that somebody was talking about in other posts?

[eggthief]

Eh I think that this was already going to happen.

[General Appo]

Something like this at least. Just a small tip Ghost to make your Sweboz campaign enjoyable:
In my Sweboz campaign I took the Sápmi quite early in the game and established a L4 goverment to represent them becoming my subordinate ally without me actually doing much there. The area was pretty non-interesting for me anyway, I only took at so that Skándzá and Auwjögötánöz would have another place to trade with and bring in some more income to my wars against the Gauls and Romani.
Anyway, after controlling it for almost 50 years it had started to get a bit crowded, Asodát was even a large city. Having some unrest problems plus realising that this really wasn´t historical, that so many Balts would stay on one place, I started recruiting as many Baltic soldiers as I could. Once I had two full stacks of them, both led by a Client General, I marched them east for Gayu-Thissakata, easily taking it. Once I had taken it I disbanded almost all my forces, and edited the files to make Baltic units recruitable there.
In this way I had simulated an area getting overcrowded and a part of the population migrating to new areas and settling there.
Just a little something you might want to try, like if the Roma thing really bothers you can always temper with the files.

[brymht]

Does this mean that in Med 2 total War you will NOT be able to recruit any regional units in a conquered province once its culture get over the "tipping point"?

For instance, if you conquery Liguria, and it is eventually mostly Romanized, will you then only be able to create Roman units, and NOT ligurian units?

[General Appo]

Hey, no team meber has said anything about that, this is just a bunch of fans speculating.

[Slim_Ghost]

Does this mean that in Med 2 total War you will NOT be able to recruit any regional units in a conquered province once its culture get over the "tipping point"?

For instance, if you conquery Liguria, and it is eventually mostly Romanized, will you then only be able to create Roman units, and NOT ligurian units?

To be fair, the ligurian units can be recruited in a ligurian city regarldess of the culture level. Only that you can't hire the high-tire ones if the culture is too low for them.

After all, historically migration can not totally flush out the local natives living there. Unless I am mistaken?

[Slim_Ghost]

Something like this at least. Just a small tip Ghost to make your Sweboz campaign enjoyable:
In my Sweboz campaign I took the Sápmi quite early in the game and established a L4 goverment to represent them becoming my subordinate ally without me actually doing much there. The area was pretty non-interesting for me anyway, I only took at so that Skándzá and Auwjögötánöz would have another place to trade with and bring in some more income to my wars against the Gauls and Romani.
Anyway, after controlling it for almost 50 years it had started to get a bit crowded, Asodát was even a large city. Having some unrest problems plus realising that this really wasn´t historical, that so many Balts would stay on one place, I started recruiting as many Baltic soldiers as I could. Once I had two full stacks of them, both led by a Client General, I marched them east for Gayu-Thissakata, easily taking it. Once I had taken it I disbanded almost all my forces, and edited the files to make Baltic units recruitable there.
In this way I had simulated an area getting overcrowded and a part of the population migrating to new areas and settling there.
Just a little something you might want to try, like if the Roma thing really bothers you can always temper with the files.

Hmm okay then. I just might want to add recruitment of some germanic warbands in Roma now.

[Irishmafia2020]

Culturally based recruitment is a big feature of the Britannia campaign, and it would make sense to add it into the game. After all, how did Greeks end up in India? They migrated in the wake of Alexander naturally, and spread their culture where they went. I personally would like to see culture exist rather than religion, but because it is an organic and evolving process, I would prefer to see an area acculturated slowly, like maybe 1% or less per year. Religious buildings could still exist of course, and they could give trade/soldiering/public order bonuses just like they do in EB 1. I truly hope this culture thing makes it into the game, and i have advocated for it in other threads myself.... Oh yes, one more thing, you could still have the native and regional MIC's both available, but the troops that are trainable in each one would change based upon the local culture percentage.... Then you could train Greek/German/Celtic units in areas that have been controlled in the game by all three factions, rather than only the "traditional" faction who created the city! Just a thought...

[Cartaphilus]

Then you could train Greek/German/Celtic units in areas that have been controlled in the game by all three factions, rather than only the "traditional" faction who created the city! Just a thought...

That's very interesting.

Why not, if you play Arverni (for ex.), recruit hastati in Athens if the romani had hold it for a century?

[Slim_Ghost]

I just thought of this idea.

Building Government type I and II will allow the faction's culture to grow and allow recruitment of the faction's units, while building Government type III and IV instead will make the DOMINANT culture of the settlement grow and allows units according to the cultures to be recruited.

(I implied DOMINANT culture of that city is because I have thought of a situation where Rome has been captured and then assimilated into the Carthaginian culture, thus if the Arveni would capture it and then made it as an independent vassal, the city would continue to remain Phoenician).

But still, this poses a problem in case for multicultural factions like Pontos, where Galatian heavy spearmen are considered the native units for that Eastern faction. Perhaps EBII can change things by making the Galatian units a type III and IV unit instead?

[eggthief]

I like that idea Ghost, but wont it be a bit weird to raise an army that was originaly from a faction that is death by the time u get the settlement?

[blacksnail]

Hey, no team meber has said anything about that, this is just a bunch of fans speculating.

I should really turn this into my .sig.

[brymht]

Whew hoo!! Baseless conjecture rawks!

[General Appo]

Why not, if you play Arverni (for ex.), recruit hastati in Athens if the romani had hold it for a century?

Ehh... because not even the Romans ever did despite holding Athens for much more then a century? I see this will have to be looked over carefully, some factions are simply less likely to migrate large populations into conquered areas, such as the Romani.

[hellenes]

Ehh... because not even the Romans ever did despite holding Athens for much more then a century? I see this will have to be looked over carefully, some factions are simply less likely to migrate large populations into conquered areas, such as the Romani.

That didnt stop the hellenes joining the legions....

[General Appo]

Unless I truly am I dope, they never joined the Hastati.

[Cartaphilus]

Unless I truly am I dope, they never joined the Hastati.

Yes, they never did it.
But when Rome became and Empire the provinces' men could join the army in better conditions than before. And this tendency grew along time.

[hellenes]

Yes, they never did it.
But when Rome became and Empire the provinces' men could join the army in better conditions than before. And this tendency grew along time.

exactly and that needs to be represented in EB2....
Same as the pandodapoi....

[General Appo]

Yeah, but Cartaphilus said "Why not, if you play Arverni (for ex.), recruit hastati in Athens if the romani had hold it for a century?"
I have nothing against Romanised units being recruited by non-roman factions, but I do have something against units being recruited in unhistorical areas, especially by factions that never even held those areas and never even commanded those units.

[hellenes]

Yeah, but Cartaphilus said "Why not, if you play Arverni (for ex.), recruit hastati in Athens if the romani had hold it for a century?"
I have nothing against Romanised units being recruited by non-roman factions, but I do have something against units being recruited in unhistorical areas, especially by factions that never even held those areas and never even commanded those units.

1st we are playing WHAT IF the moment we click to start the campaign....
2nd what I meant was that after the republic the legions were reqruited in distant areas....comprised of local people....Not hastati but regional imperial legionares....
Anyway I think that 100 years of assimilation wont have any problem reqruiting locals...

[Cartaphilus]

1st we are playing WHAT IF the moment we click to start the campaign....
2nd what I meant was that after the republic the legions were reqruited in distant areas....comprised of local people....Not hastati but regional imperial legionares....
Anyway I think that 100 years of assimilation wont have any problem reqruiting locals...

That's it.

[Ludens]

Well, the Germans conquered Gaul after 300 years of assimilation, but they never bothered recruiting legionaries. It could have happened, no doubt, but it goes very far into "what if" territory, and it's too much to expect the team to include all (or even many)"what if" scenarios.

[Cartaphilus]

Right.

But what I said was simple and pure speculation. I didn't pretend to recruit hastati for the Arverni in Athens.

[General Appo]

Once again, I have nothing against the whole legionarie thing, just against the hastati stuff you mentioned in your first post on the subject.

[Irishmafia2020]

Well, you would still have specific national units, so The Averni in Athens might not be able to recruit hastati, or even Legionaires (they would be "national units" - not regional units) but they might be able to recruit an Italian general or something. More importantly, if the Romans conquered Britain, then after their culture reached a certain point (50%) they could begin to recruit legionaries or other national units. A better example might be that if KH invaded Spain and held it for 100 years, then they would be able to recruit Classical Hoplites in previously Barbarian areas. Of course, if you were using priests (Under a different name) to spread culture, then you could focus them in one province. I don't know what you would call the agent (not a priest) but in some areas that you did not choose to invest your time in, the culture would stay native - and you would never be able to recruit certain national units. Think about it, Greek settlers flooded the near east, their culture changed warfare in that area for hundreds of years, Romans conquered dozens of tribes, and eventually Romanized them and recruited soldiers from everywhere, the People of India were conquered by waves of invaders who had a cultural impact, and Iberia and Carthage also exchanged fighting styles and weapons. All of this could be represented in game if you allow "cultural drift" to impact national and regional MIC recruitment.

[blacksnail]

There are some technical and historical issues with doing it exactly as you're talking about.

[Irishmafia2020]

Fair enough, I don't know what is possible with the Kingdoms engine, but I still think that some kind of changing "culture" could add some depth to the game, but ultimately I do not know enough about modding MTW2 to propose a practical solution. EB is well recognized for its historical accuracy, so I wouldn't want to advocate something that clashed with the mod's philosophy anyway....

[blacksnail]

No, that's a fine suggestion - I didn't mean to shut you down. I'm just not sure it would work due to a) hardcoding and b) the way we're hoping to represent certain things. It's always a minor tragedy to say "this is a neat idea we likely won't use," but that's just how things go when it comes to a consistent internal vision.

[Zimm4973]

I think we all need to remember that EB is not about reenacting history its about giving us the chance to or to play out a what if scenario in a way we like and to give us the tools to to both starting from a historically accurate start

WHAT DO U THINK

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