Bunch of new E3 shots

[Sheogorath]

I've also heard that the shot::hit ratio at Borodino was something like 800::1.
I dont doubt that a trained man with a musket could make a shot, with a bit of luck, at 250 meters. But that would require a veteran soldier, with some skill, who would probably be in a light/jaeger unit, not the line.
Hell, the Russians didnt even bother putting sights on most of their muskets. Although that was mostly because they figured muskets were for wusses and REAL men used bayonets.

[TB666]

I remember at the Battle of Narva 1700, the swedes didn't open fire until they came within 50 meters of the russians.
It was a blizzard that day so the russians couldn't spot them until they were within 50 meters so they were surprised when the swede all of the sudden started to appear in front of their noses.
Anyway, apperently the volley that the swedes fired was devastating for the russians and broke them.
I hope that firing from such a distance will be just that, not only devastating but a severe morale blow.

[lars573]

If your going to be even remotely true to the period that sort of morale effect on firing range is pretty much needed.

[Sheogorath]

If your going to be even remotely true to the period that sort of morale effect on firing range is pretty much needed.

Thats just a matter of tweaking a units reaction to how many people die at once. In NTW2 you can usually route a unit with one or two close range volleys. ('Close' being 'directly in their faces', for most units)

[TB666]

Thats just a matter of tweaking a units reaction to how many people die at once. In NTW2 you can usually route a unit with one or two close range volleys. ('Close' being 'directly in their faces', for most units)

Well in NTW1 you could rout a unit easily by simply moving one unit behind them. Only took one volley no matter what distance.
I do hope CA has looked at NTW1 when making this game.
Lusted surely must have tried once.

[CBR]

I've also heard that the shot::hit ratio at Borodino was something like 800::1.
I dont doubt that a trained man with a musket could make a shot, with a bit of luck, at 250 meters. But that would require a veteran soldier, with some skill, who would probably be in a light/jaeger unit, not the line.
Hell, the Russians didnt even bother putting sights on most of their muskets. Although that was mostly because they figured muskets were for wusses and REAL men used bayonets.

Actually that 800:1 claim is for the battle of Vitoria which is IIRC based on a flawed assumption that the Allied army fired all its ammo as well as the spare ammo.

There were numerous opinions about how many shots it took to produce a casualty, some more outrageous than others. But having units blaze away as fast as they could without even using ramrods surely had a detrimental effect on accuracy.

Yes some armies loved the bayonet more than other armies. Nonetheless even the Russians found a use for skirmishers in their regular battalions.


CBR

[Sheogorath]

I'm fairly sure I saw an estimate somewhere that said that the French Infantry fired about 1.4 million rounds (or 2,300 per minute) during the battle, resulting in 44,000 Russian casualties (some of which were wounded, but eh.) Even assuming all of those casualties were caused by musketry, and that all of them were only hit once, that's still 320 shots for every one kill.
And the French artillery were supposed to have fired almost 60-90,000 shots as well.

And one would also have to assume the Russians had a worse shot-kill ratio.

And, indeed, the Russians did have skirmishers, but they were rather neglected by the standards of other armies. They had most of their rifles taken away just prior to the Napoleonic Wars. Probably because Paul didnt think they looked good on parade or something. And there was the order issued shortly after the start of the Napoleonic Wars that all infantry (even jaegers) were to have bayonets fixed all the time.

[CBR]

Even assuming all of those casualties were caused by musketry, and that all of them were only hit once, that's still 320 shots for every one kill.
And the French artillery were supposed to have fired almost 60-90,000 shots as well.

Yes I have seen that estimate of ammo use but you have missed a zero as its 32 shots per hit.

A lot of artillery fire was as counter battery or against the redoubts which would never have produced many casualties.

Other estimates of average musket shots per hit are 100-200. But again it depends on circumstances. In the book "Firepower" by B. P. Hughes there are some examples that suggests 2-5% hit rate at distances of 50-100 yards.


CBR

[anders]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the omission of aiming for the firing of volleys, but just pointing in a general direction, wasnt only because the accuracy was terrible anyway, but also because it softened the moral or psychical impact warfare had on the soldiers, when they didnt aim at a single target, they werent morally responsible for the damage they caused to their fellow man in the same way they would have been if actually having an individual in their sights.

about accuracy, it would seem that if the kill rate of volleys werent so low, it would have been impossible to keep even the most well-drilled of veterans to stay in tight formations under fire.

btw, the tight firing ranks and firing of volleys must be one of the stranger inventions of warfare, it gives you a good punch, but for the punch to do much, your target must also be in a tight formation, and you put your troops in about the only position that inaccurate musket fire can do them much harm.

[Duke John]

Well, we could leave out the trails, but then you might have some difficulty in figuring out why your elite unit was losing a dozen men every 5 seconds... gameplay > realism, in this case, anyway ;)

The expected standard of the average E:TW player is so low that CA thinks he cannot figure out that the nearby enemy units making firing noises and producing lots of smoke is the cause of the casualities? Wow.

[lars573]

btw, the tight firing ranks and firing of volleys must be one of the stranger inventions of warfare, it gives you a good punch, but for the punch to do much, your target must also be in a tight formation, and you put your troops in about the only position that inaccurate musket fire can do them much harm.

Your point ignores a key fact. Humans have tendency to bunch up together in stressfull situtations. Like getting shot at.