Bunch of new E3 shots

[Sheogorath]

Napoleon (and I read this as a little kid in another language, so I am not sure whether it's accurate or not) was the one who invented a formation of three row deep, first row lay down, second row kneel, and third row standing. First row fire while second and third rows reload, then second row fire while first and third rows reload, and then third row fire while first and second reload, and so on. Then it was adopted by the other nations during the Napoleonic Wars. Maybe that's why there are mostly rows of threes.

Rank-and-File formation, I believe thats called. I'm not sure about the kneeling/laying down, since that would make it rather difficult to reload. I'm pretty sure the Chinese were the first to use the idea, though. Napoleon may've been the first to make it popular, however. I'm not sure.
The three-man-deep line formation was in use long before Napoleon. I think it was Frederick the Great who made it famous, but people'd been using it for a while, even by then.

[CBR]

Napoleon did not invent it. 3 rank formation was in use by some armies in early 18th century and most armies switched to that before or during the Seven Years War.

If anything the first rank would kneel, second crouch a bit with third rank standing normal. But that was increasingly seen as not good enough as the first rank would not always stand up to reload or charge when needed.


CBR

[AussieGiant]

My general reading of combat at the time (1775-1815) put effective musket range at around 50 to 75 meters. That is to say massed volley fire in which aiming was basically possible with the first volley. Past that there was no chance due to smoke.

Aimed shots were certainly possible by good skirmish units and that put the range out to about 150 meters or less. Anything over this was simply in the realm of freakish marksmen who are not available in any decent numbers to talk about in overall combat conditions. A lead ball floating through the air became like a flying loaf of bread once even a small amount of velocity was lost.

Rifles on the other hand had effective aimed ranges out to 300 meters by the average user, and shots up to double that for top echelon marksmen. (This is only possible using the correct wadding that bits into the grooves in the barrel causing the ball to spin, therefore creating the accuracy. If you do not use the wadding then a rifle is as effective as a musket) I vaguely remember some boast of a riflemen of time hitting a target up to 800 meters. I've yet to read enough accounts of this to believe it.

The British, apparently the only force at the time to use live ammunition to practise with, were able to get off 3 to 4 shots a minute. 4 shots being Guard or Grenadiers units.

Other nations were known to be able to get off 2 to 3 shots.

There were exceptions but too few to have these averages changed.

The British used two and three rank formations to great effect and were able to use simple mathematics to defeat Napoleon. He was very famous for massing his regiments into rectangle blocks of 40 to 90 men wide and 60 to 100 ranks deep and marching them like battering rams at the enemy lines.

[Sheogorath]

Likewise, the Russian's preferred columns for their mobility, since line formations were blindingly slow.
Russian units normally deployed in a sort of 'checkerboard' formation, the space between infantry columns usually being filled with artillery and officers and so forth. Hence, Russian armies usually were firepower deficient in terms of musketry, but made up for that with their artillery obsession.
Considering that the Russian infantryman was famous for not being able to hit the broadside of a barn from the inside, I can understand that sort of thinking ;)

[CBR]

I vaguely remember some boast of a riflemen of time hitting a target up to 800 meters. I've yet to read enough accounts of this to believe it.

That must be infamous myth of Thomas Plunket shooting the French general Colbert. No sources actually give any indication of it being an exceptional long ranged shot. It might come from a Sharpe's novel. The most silly thing is to check the entry on Wikipedia on the Baker Rifle and then go through the history of edits. That 800 yards range just won't go away although people have no sources for it.

The British used two and three rank formations to great effect and were able to use simple mathematics to defeat Napoleon. He was very famous for massing his regiments into rectangle blocks of 40 to 90 men wide and 60 to 100 ranks deep and marching them like battering rams at the enemy lines.

Sorry but that is way too simplistic and columns were never that deep anyway:9-12 ranks for standard battalions and sometimes a few battalions in depth.

The website is normally working fine but at this moment it is down: http://www.napoleon-series.org/milit...a/c_maida.html but this one explains a bit too http://napoleonistyka.atspace.com/in...ycombatcolumns

edit: website is working again


CBR

[AussieGiant]

Hi there CBR and Sheogorath.

Yeah the 800 yard shot just keep hanging around but I really never saw anything else to corroborate it. Seems totally impossible to me.

And yes I don't get into too much detail with things like this. There are a lot of opinions and that fair enough for me.

I've certainly read multiple accounts of columns being well over 3000 plus men. It was multiple regiments and even half divisions that were formed up to create these. At these troop levels the ranks were very deep.

The columns were famous for taking massive punishment and still marching right on.

I must say the Sharpe novels are very well research but some details are debatable. As with many things in history.

[CBR]

Yes a "column" could be rather big but battalions were not massed together. A brigade could form up in say 4 battalions in front and 2 in rear as support and all being in battalion column with space to deploy. 2 brigades could form up one behind the other, with each brigade in a 2 by 2 formation, but again with room to deploy and the rear brigade was acting as reserve.

At a distance it would look like a massive formation and would include thousands of soldiers but it would not be one solid mass of men.

A brigade in line could quickly be turned into a large column by having each company do a 90 degree wheel. But again not used for assaulting but to maneuver into a position on say an enemy flank.


CBR