Gaming Apathy

[Tamur]

hi all,

I've noticed an interesting... trend? Not sure it's a trend.

Anyway, my wife and I enjoyed playing games like the TotalWar series, Age of Empires, Neverwinter Nights etc a few years ago, and then got into the busy-with-kids phase. We're slightly less stressed out these days and are returning to the gaming scene, and even though I have good hardware, I look around at the current crop of games and see:

• Copycat game design
• Copy protection debacles
• Phone-home weekly activations
• Design teams dropping key features and saying they'll be in the "next version"
• Steeper and steeper system reqs for no better (usually worse) gameplay experience
• Console gaming getting the lion's share of press attention, for games that make me gag (sorry, if I want to play a guitar, I'll plug it into my amp)

To solve this problem, we've gone back to all the old favourites. Sure I had to buy them all again because the old disks are scratched to pieces, but at $10 for the Gold versions of everything, it's not much of an investment.

I'd put it down to my grognard nature but I see this happening with *everyone* I know at work. Exactly 0 of 15 gamers here have bought more than one new game in the last two years.

I might just work in a weird little isolated area, so I'm curious to know if anyone else is experiencing, or seeing, this sort of behaviour.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

There is some good stuff that came out recently for PC. I'm still playing World in Conflict, and my most recent purchase, Assassin's Creed, has been well worth it.

[rajpoot]

We had a long long debate here about the consoles taking the lion's share of games from the PC, it's just a bitter truth I guess.
Apart from that, the steeper system reqs, I put that to the improving graphics of the games. All right, maybe the gaming experiance is not improving alot, but what is improving is graphics. Look at Return to Castle, and then look at Soldier of Fortune 2!! Why I'd prefer the former any day! But which one looks more beautiful? The sad truth is, it's the latter, thought it's the former that is the better FPS.


Edit :
Again, like EMFM has pointed out, good games for PC are still out there, World in Conflict is really a great game! And look at Oblivion! Look at The Witcher! Why, look at Mount and Blade, it has modest graphics, nowhere near todays genre, but what a game! What a game, one of a kind it is!

[lars573]

Yet more proof that being PC only is a dead end. Consoles are going to get all the attention because they are 80% (being generous to the PC) of the gamming market. If your thinking that console games are not PC games your wrong, Mars has a hidden point. Most games these days from 3rd party developers are multiplatform. In the long run if not in the begining. So it might do you good to start looking at some of those console games. As a some will be on the PC at some point.

[Martok]

Well as my preference is for turn-based grand strategy games, I've been wandering in the desert for at least the last 5 years now. Aside from (to extend the metaphor) the occasional oasis such as Galactic Civilizations 2, it's been a very thirsty time for me.

[Ferret]

Yet more proof that being PC only is a dead end. Consoles are going to get all the attention because they are 80% (being generous to the PC) of the gamming market.

Is the other 20% handhelds and mobiles?

[lars573]

More like home consoles =35%, Handhelds (including phones)=45% PC =15% (20% if a new Sims is coming out) 0-5% old grognards crying into their beers/beards about how it ain't like it was in the old days (aka 1994).

[TevashSzat]

More like home consoles =35%, Handhelds (including phones)=45% PC =15% (20% if a new Sims is coming out) 0-5% old grognards crying into their beers/beards about how it ain't like it was in the old days (aka 1994).

The thing is, while consoles do have a pretty big market share, they don't make money. Other than the Wii, which isn't a "hardcore" gamer's platform, XBox 360 and PS3 costs ALOT more money to make than they're selling for. Both Microsoft and Sony have lost billions IIRC just by selling their consoles. So, in the end, they hardly make that much money from the console business at all

[lars573]

From the Sony vs. M$ threads I've been privy too on console-kiddy dominated forums I frequent. The life cycle of the hardcore ones goes something like loose money for the first __ months then start making profit. Both Sony and M$ have been making money on their consoles for over a year now (it took Sony a lot longer cause of Blu-ray). They acutally build in the initial insolvency per unit sold into the buisness plan. Plus they get some % on every game sold on their platform.

[Whacker]

That's incorrect as I understand it. MS is barely breaking even on the old Xbrick at this point, and they are still losing money on the 360. Sony's breakeven was calculated to be 2-3 years out from launch of the PS3. I will look for the articles, but that information was from both 1. employees and 2. and industrial analyst's calculations.

[lars573]

Consider the source in the preface though. I never bothered investigating much. It wouldn't surprise me to find that the profit margins are razor thin to none existant on the big consoles. Doesn't rally matter to me. I like my Xbox for certain games, and the PC for others, and mah hand held for travelling. Assassins Creed on the Xbox/PS3 is how it was mean't to be played.

[Tamur]

Aside from (to extend the metaphor) the occasional oasis such as Galactic Civilizations 2...

I know the feeling. I'll have to check Galactic Civ 2 out, that's one I haven't touched.

It sounds like that's just the way things are. Apparently I'm surrounded by 1% of that 5% of grognards lamenting the loss of the good old days! Ah well, at least I've got good company, and the LAN still works

[Marius Dynamite]

Console gaming getting the lion's share of press attention, for games that make me gag (sorry, if I want to play a guitar, I'll plug it into my amp)

100 million billion percent agree. On the 360 you click a thing called Inside Xbox which gives you the latest news and video streams and stuff. While E3 was on they put all the E3 news on Inside Xbox and it was so tiring them always talking about the new Guitar Hero, LIPS (some new singing game), the new Rock Band (Guitar Hero - with Drums!).

I understand some people enjoy these games, but who buys a new one every year? What updates do they do? If people loves Guitars so much, Don't spend 70 quid on a fake guitar from an early 90's arcade, buy a real one!

Also I can't imagine who buys an Xbox 360, buys Xbox Live and waits for E3 to hear news on the singing game. Come on, we all wanted gameplay video for CoD5, Halo Wars, Endwar etc. Then maybe give us some info on Games For Windows or something, Anything other than 75% of your coverage on The new Guitar Hero, The new Rock Band and a singing game!! I didn't buy a Wii I bought an Xbox!!!

EDIT:

Doesn't rally matter to me. I like my Xbox for certain games, and the PC for others, and mah hand held for travelling.

Agreed except for the hand held, they hurt my eyes!

[Xiahou]

That's incorrect as I understand it. MS is barely breaking even on the old Xbrick at this point, and they are still losing money on the 360. Sony's breakeven was calculated to be 2-3 years out from launch of the PS3. I will look for the articles, but that information was from both 1. employees and 2. and industrial analyst's calculations.

Yeah, the most recent story I could find was from 2 months ago and it estimated that Sony is losing about $260 per PS3 sold.

As to the PC market, you just have to look past the handful of big budget, heavily advertised games. There are PC games for almost every taste, you just have to be able to find them and browsing the shelves of your local Gamestop isn't gonna suffice.

[Tamur]

...There are PC games for almost every taste, you just have to be able to find them and browsing the shelves of your local Gamestop isn't gonna suffice.

Errr... are you holding out for a bribe, or are you (for free!) going to clue me in on what sort of acrobatic google searching I need to do to find said games?

[Xiahou]

Errr... are you holding out for a bribe, or are you (for free!) going to clue me in on what sort of acrobatic google searching I need to do to find said games?

Well, it's kind of hard to tell someone what games they would like. I usually just try to read up at respectable sites and talk to people with similar gaming interests. Looking for anything in particular?

Most of my gaming time of late has been on the Nintendo DS, but on the PC I've been playing EU3 and trying different (mostly free) mmos.

[Geoffrey S]

Can't say I particularly care.

[rajpoot]

Perhaps it's just me being thick, but, if the companies are bearing such losses on their consoles, then why're they manufacturing new stuff then? I mean, Microsoft should never have had launched Xbox 360, and it certainly can't be by looking on long term profits, because consoles get outdated almost as quickly a PCs.

[lars573]

Well Xbox lost M$ 40 Billion US dollars. That's right Billion with a B. But that was part of the plan. They knew going in they'd take a massive loss financially (and their software divsion covered the loss anyway). M$ sacrificed 40 billion to build a brand to take on Sony. The PS2 didn't, but that's cause it sold hundreds of millions of units (and in fact supported Sony's not quite solvent movie, music, and home electronics divisions). And still sells tens of thousands today. M$ may only break even and Sony may still be loosing money on every unit sold, but that's part of the home console buisness model. Selling hardware ain't how you get rich in the gamming buisness (unless your Nintendo). Selling games is. And not just from first party games that Sony and M$ publish themselfs. The hardware makers still get a cut from any software sold for their platform.

[Mikeus Caesar]

To be the prophet of doom and gloom, and at the risk of sounding like someone dragged straight from 4chan /v/, surely you can see what all this adds up to?

Hardcore gaming is dying and the world of the future shall be ruled by boring casuals. Yay for guitars and wagglan gaems.

[woad&fangs]

Hey now, Guitar Hero is fun as a party game

[BigTex]

More and more I'm starting to notice I just don't buy many games anymore. Games arent what they used to be, for most of them the quality keeps dropping off, the stories are rehashes and piss poor ones at that. Sure they look all pretty, and hey it's nice to have realistic physics in them, but honestly most games suck other then that.

Advertising more and more is just loads of bull. Games are so frigin buggy now they require patches a week after release. I havent bought a single game in over 10 months, nothing new seems to spark my interest anymore. Even MMO's have degenerated in to WoW clones, where's the good old days when a level took a month to grind, or maxing level took a year or more. Where has the friggin difficulty in games gone? Where has the need to invest time into something gone to?

I miss being younger and coming home from judo or savate practice and loading up a game that caught and took my entire attention. Where they took focus and skill, and even dear god it's horrible, let you frigin fail. You could actually die, you would have to start over, or lose massive expierence, you had a risk to screwing up. You had a reason to focus when you played, and it just made winning better! I could come home and load up Age of Empires and take on a challenging AI, that could alot of times wipe the floor with me. Or logging into Everquest and grinding through difficult fights, they actually took skill, not everyone with an IQ of 10 could do them. I miss getting on baldur's gate II and playing through one of the most beautiful stories I have ever read, played, or seen.

Is it so much to ask for a game that isnt sugar coated and made idiot proof? Is it hard to make a game that isnt for the casual, I want everything now and I want the best of everything in 10 minutes, crowd?

There is a serious drought of good, creative, difficult, honest to god interesting games. And it sucks.

[Divinus Arma]

I can't picture Xiahou playing a DS.

[lars573]

You should try it sometime.

[Lehesu]

I'm just burned out on games. I buy at price point, so I have a large stockpile of pedigreed but unplayed games. And I can't summon the same enthusiasm to really play with any regularity.

[Praxil]

This is the thing with the PC, Personal Computer has never been a gaming platform and never will be one. PC is for doing work on it not for playing games in the first place. However, with some money by buying better graphic card, more and faster memory with fast enough processor that stock PC will handle games too. There is no PC gaming market, there is console gaming market however. How so? They'll simply calculate how many console units are sold, means simply as many possible gamers with at least one game sold. For PC you never know that, it is simply impossible to know how many play games other than through sold games. Console unit is a stock unit and will stay that way, you develop game for it and it will run it. You develop game for PC, you'll never know how many will buy it due to systems requirements. These are the things that I think developers are definitely thinking all day long, and are making decisions on what versions of game to develop.

Doesn't look good for PC gaming in my opinion. I'm not cynical, I'm just being realistic by looking in the past, now and the future. There is no other genre like this one, Shooters no other type of games have been developed as much as shooters. Any kind of shooters, third or first person. Shooters used to be almost kind of like exclusive games for PC. Goldeneye, Perfect Dark and Halo: CE were pretty much only notable shooters on consoles. Today, there are more shooters coming out on consoles than on PC. And the way they sell I think that trend will not only continue but grow in amount.

Somewhat ten years ago I deeply believe that developers were still developing their dreamgames. Games that they dreamed about to be able to play. And that's how the developing was going on, they developed games as long as it was necessary to get that kind of game out they wanted. Hoping that people will like it as much as they do. Today, I believe that most of the developers are developing for profit and trying satisfying current trends in gaming industry and majority of gamers. As long as something kind of new thing sells, the rain of copies starts. Developing proses is tighter than ever trying to fit in to business life of four quarters. Pretty much the game is out at set time no matter how buggy game is, it's coming out. The "when it's done" old way of developing is pretty much non existing. Going for pleasing as much people as they can has lead in to incredibly flat games with fault game designs. Playing Mass Effect I felt like BioWare has never developed a game where you loot before, that inventory system is unbelievable. Unfortunately games are developed like movies today with tight schedules and clear budgets. It works for movies, but not for games in my opinion.

This is wrong and inaccurate way to look at this in the end, but I think there is some point in here. The way I look at it the PC gaming is World of Warcraft, The Sims and Counter-Strike 1.6. These titles are most popular without a doubt. CS being a mod, still most popular shooter on PC. Anything else is struggling to sell million copies in a year. This leaves PC games and PC versions in an unwanted place to develop. Seems like only three genres are valuable on PC shooters, role playing games and strategy games. Not that much of sport games, driving or fighting games. So, that is all people play or willing to pay for? Doesn't look that good for developer or publisher when they look at it. I think that in this situation those developing for PC at the moment and not making enough are about to drop it. Because developing is far expensive than it used to be and you got to make much more money just to be able to continue. 100k units sold isn't enough when you've invested millions.

I've been wondering. Good enough PC can handle any games developed on any platforms. You can hook up anything in to USB-port joysticks, mics all that. Right? So, why aren't they coming out on PC? Where is God of War or Metal Gear Solid 4 on PC, why GTA IV isn't out on the PC at the same time with console versions?

Modding games was about bringing more content by players for players. Right? Today modding seems to be about fixing all these broken games people bought. There is this incredible attitude some dummies have. People are sure that when some game will come out, that there will be somebody and fix that game for them by modding it. So people when they see some flaws in gameplay videos of unreleased games, they're like "but there will be mods for it so it's okay". And I think that this effects on the developers/publishers the way that they drop the support after the game is released and just ship it with SDK or some tools. That's right they are supporting modding now. Here you go, you can fix it yourself.

So this is it for real time strategy games, new titles can be only better looking than the last ones? Because despite all the technical development the AI is as good as it was 10 years ago. And I don't want challenging AI or AI that dies in interesting and funny ways. I want AI to kick my ass without cheating me, so that I need to use strategy for the first time to win.

Right now at the moment it looks like the money is not in the PC games. Whatever happens, I'm sure that games will continue to come out on PC, but what kind of games and when. PC gaming is not death or dying, it's just that nothing is going on and these new PC only games are pushing only graphically. One thing, I think that if some developer publicly saying that they are not getting enough from their PC titles, they mean more than that. They aren't crying, whining or bitching they mean that they will take a look on where they can do better than now. Then they'll pretty much put their best effort on platform that gives them best sells.

[Togakure]

Not only with games, but in cinema, music and other creative arts, rapidly advancing technology and diminishing costs to procure and use said technology have made it much easier to produce superficially impressive products. This satisfies both the modern creators' and consumers' needs for quick and easy gratification, hard-earned skill and gifted artistic vision, depth and substance, not particularly required.

For consumers, resulting products yield little lasting satisfaction. They lack originality, "soul," often excessively derivative and reliant on effects and technically-oriented merits for success. Older games, films, music could not hook us so easily. Emphasis has shifted from the substantial to the superficial. The drivers are what sells--what the majority wants and will pay for now, and what satisfies the desire to be celebrated as creative and visionary now. Is it in the best interests of suppliers to deliver satisfaction that lasts? For artisans, yes, but for merchants....

I find this to be a depressing evolution (dilution?) for both producers and consumers, but there are still many skilled visionaries, and connoisseurs. When true artistry is supported by technical innovation, but not supplanted by it, then we are rewarded with the truly exceptional films, music, games.

I wish I had more time to better articulate this.

[Lehesu]

Pirating on the PC platform is also quite a problem, regardless of what indignant gamers might say. Companies are more wary of spending a lot of time on a game that is just going to be torrented the day of release.

[edyzmedieval]

As good as consoles may be, they cannot replace the PC in games like Counter Strike or Grand Theft Auto.

[Motep]

Yes, where have the plots gone! Yes, graphics are fine, but they sure as hell arent everything in a game.