i dont understand...

[Tellos Athenaios]

Is there any evidence that Germanic warriors took some of the Romans armour and weapons as prizes? Because in my opinion, if I was a warrior and just slaughtered a Roman legion I would have gone for the LS because it was very new and shiny and never seen before and really does look intimidating then chain mail which i suspect was a major reason for its rising popularity.

For starters the local Germans would've been quite into Roman military stuff; as they were widely sought after in the Roman military... Nothing new & shiny about what (subject to much? debate) can be considered an inferior type of armour -- especially in the German homelands...

[a completely inoffensive name]

For starters the local Germans would've been quite into Roman military stuff; as they were widely sought after in the Roman military... Nothing new & shiny about what (subject to much? debate) can be considered an inferior type of armour -- especially in the German homelands...

Well since LS was just starting to become "popular" (which I know can be debated about) around that time I would have thought that this would have been one of the first times the Germans came into combat with Roman soldiers wearing LS and thus would have been "new" to them.

[spqr_arcani]

I personally don't understand the mentality of people wanting LS in the game.

I myself didn't care.
I came here looking for a stable mod and to learn history.

What's in the mind of people who keep asking why there's no LS in the game?
Did they watch too much of a show or movie,
which set their expectations for EB?

Very curious.

[satalexton]

Well i don't mind LS if it's within the game's timeframe, which it clearly isn't.
Popularism is surely a factor to be reckoned with, but it's still yet to be powerful enough to conjure an energy strong enough to affect the fabric of spacetime to such an extent that LS would appear in 200 BC.
Hollywood may give Peter Parker wall climbing powers, but until I see totalwar.org give vigilante powers to users to wear underpants on their heads and zap flies with their laser powered bosoms... I highly doubt that whining would do any good.
Allow me to answer your question, spcr_arcani. To a LS zealot, a Rome without LS is like Japland without Ninjas, China without kungfu masters, or 300 without spartans.
Hollywood shoulf really sod themselves, HBO gets a cookie tho, I personally think they did a far fairer, still not perfect, job.

[Hooahguy]

I personally don't understand the mentality of people wanting LS in the game.

I myself didn't care.
I came here looking for a stable mod and to learn history.

What's in the mind of people who keep asking why there's no LS in the game?
Did they watch too much of a show or movie,
which set their expectations for EB?

Very curious.

mostly they just dont know their history too well, so they ask why LS isnt there.
but for the seasons fellas, they just want some fun in the forum, so they ask it anyhow.

[Ludens]

What's in the mind of people who keep asking why there's no LS in the game?
Did they watch too much of a show or movie,
which set their expectations for EB?

At a guess, I'd say it's because the LS is quintessentially Roman, and many people feel that a game about the Romans wouldn't be complete without it. I won't go as far as blaming Hollywood for this: LS appeared in practically all my school history books and most popular history as well. Often, these images are correct (in the sense that they display Imperial rather than Republican legionaries), but this has fixed the image in the public mind so that many people can't image Roman legionairs any other way than wearing LS.

[Hax]

Have any EB members or players ever been to a reenactment?

I have. I also visit medieval and "Celtic" festivals a lot.

[TWFanatic]

I have. I also visit medieval and "Celtic" festivals a lot.

Wow! I envy you.

Ludens is quite right. The situation is almost humorously absurd and Hollywood is not entirely to blame. I once saw pamphlets for a lecture on the Punic Wars with pictures of Roman legionaries marching in segmented armor on the front. The Punic Wars!

EDIT: Not to mention a biography of Cicero with an image of the coliseum on the front. Cicero, a man who was not only born centuries before the construction of this building but who did not enjoy the games himself.

[Hooahguy]

Wow! I envy you.

Ludens is quite right. The situation is almost humorously absurd and Hollywood is not entirely to blame. I once saw pamphlets for a lecture on the Punic Wars with pictures of Roman legionaries marching in segmented armor on the front. The Punic Wars! What is this world coming to?

oh please. half the world, if not the majority, doesnt even know the difference between the greeks and romans.
the lack of interest in history by the sheeple (uninformed people) is horrible.

[TWFanatic]

For starters the local Germans would've been quite into Roman military stuff; as they were widely sought after in the Roman military... Nothing new & shiny about what (subject to much? debate) can be considered an inferior type of amour -- especially in the German homelands...

My understanding is that the lorica segmentata was a very complex in its design, with numerous plates linked by copper-alloy buckles, hinges, and hooks and a leather harness underneath. It is understandable that all of these little pieces, which appear to have commonly broken and fallen off, would present maintenance problems. These little pieces are common finds on Roman military sites. I also recall hearing somewhere (any resident chemists to affirm/refute this?) that chemical reactions between the bronze fittings and iron plates fostered corrosion. It also took much more technological skill to produce a plate cuirass than one made of mail.

That said, most modern tests I’ve seen seem to have confirmed the efficiency of segmented armor. It’s plates (unlike those of later medieval plate armor) were not hardened by forging which allowed the softer metal to absorb a blow, spreading its force. Mail can be pierced by pointed weapons and projectiles and shattered by blunt ones, but segmented cuirasses are far harder to pierce and much better suited to evenly distributing the shock of blows (I use the present tense because I am referring to present-day tests, which very well might be using higher quality iron than was available in Antiquity). The lorica segmentata also appears to be the preferred choice of cuirass amongst rein actors from what I have seen. Perhaps someone who knows more about these events can clarify why.

[satalexton]

perhaps they were simply a form of dress armour to make their men feel miserable when parading and marching?
I'm in a marching-band myself and those damn boots and buckles do more hinder than help when playing the trombone... not to mention the heat in summer.
..plus side tho, it makes us look 'military' and cool in the photos =P

[TWFanatic]

perhaps they were simply a form of dress armour to make their men feel miserable when parading and marching?
I'm in a marching-band myself and those damn boots and buckles do more hinder than help when playing the trombone... not to mention the heat in summer.
..plus side tho, it makes us look 'military' and cool in the photos =P

These are the ROMANS we are speaking of here. Virtually everything Roman had a practical purpose, including but not limited to military items. Looking "cool" would just be a convenient side effect. Besides, the LS was lighter than the LH and, once again, is apparently preferred by most re-enactors. Ultimately however, I would probably prefer to wear the hamata on parade and the segmentata in battle since the former was more comftorable but the latter was lighter and offered better protection in many ways.

[Tellos Athenaios]

That said, most modern tests I’ve seen seem to have confirmed the efficiency of segmented armor. It’s plates (unlike those of later medieval plate armor) were not hardened by forging which allowed the softer metal to absorb a blow, spreading its force. Mail can be pierced by pointed weapons and projectiles and shattered by blunt ones, but segmented cuirasses are far harder to pierce and much better suited to evenly distributing the shock of blows (I use the present tense because I am referring to present-day tests, which very well might be using higher quality iron than was available in Antiquity). The lorica segmentata also appears to be the preferred choice of cuirass amongst rein actors from what I have seen. Perhaps someone who knows more about these events can clarify why.

About piercing weapons; one would always wear some additional layer of clothing/armour underneath the chain mail, or the LS if only for simple reasons of comfort. I guess it hurts: 10000+ metal rings scraping off your skin; or getting your skin stuck between the two of the segements in LS...

As for Re-enactors choosing to stick with LS instead of other forms well; that can be explained by a number of reasons:

1) LS doesn't weigh as much as chain mail;
2) LS can be recreated/faked quite easily; chain mail can't (remember: 10000+ rings...).
3) LS is cheaper (see #2); valid even way back when
4) For some strange reason (a-historical Romans) the public associates the combination "Romans + history" with LS. It's not accurate, given the Romans never took to it the way the Greeks took to the Lineothorax for instance; but yeah ... Also; not like re-enactors give an accurate representation of the armies back then if you interpret the amount of re-enactors posing as soldier type X as how many of them were actually around; I mean: ever seen as many re-enactors choosing to pose as Pantodapoi-type soldiers?

[TWFanatic]

About piercing weapons; one would always wear some additional layer of clothing/armour underneath the chain mail, or the LS if only for simple reasons of comfort. I guess it hurts: 10000+ metal rings scraping off your skin; or getting your skin stuck between the two of the segements in LS...

I have heard a number of vague references to a padded garment that was worn over the tunic and underneath the armor. The term subarmalis comes to mind. I've heard it used as a pretty generic term for any article of clothing worn underneath armor. Quick google came up with this: http://www.larp.com/legioxx/subarm.html
Not sure how accurate it is but all the reenactment sites seems to agree that little is known about this garment because it was made of perishable textiles and hence hasn't survived.

As for Re-enactors choosing to stick with LS instead of other forms well; that can be explained by a number of reasons:

1) LS doesn't weigh as much as chain mail;
2) LS can be recreated/faked quite easily; chain mail can't (remember: 10000+ rings...).
3) LS is cheaper (see #2); valid even way back when
4) For some strange reason (a-historical Romans) the public associates the combination "Romans + history" with LS. It's not accurate, given the Romans never took to it the way the Greeks took to the Lineothorax for instance; but yeah ... Also; not like re-enactors give an accurate representation of the armies back then if you interpret the amount of re-enactors posing as soldier type X as how many of them were actually around; I mean: ever seen as many re-enactors choosing to pose as Pantodapoi-type soldiers?

Makes sense. That strange reason, btw, is most likely that ever-corrupting influence on modern culture--Hollywood.

Have any EB members or players ever been to a reenactment?

[satalexton]

I have, not as a roman personally tho (I was an infantryman from the early Han dynasty). It was a community history event some years ago about the world during 200 BC (The XiongNu starts poping up in China, I think the romans just got rid of some local Gallic problems...cant remember clearly). Some dudes from another school acting as the romans came clad in LS...I asked them y and they told me cuz it's easier to make and the general public's too stupid to realize anyways... =_=;;;

...so much for our guys doing all that research, and the other guys just decided that principes wear LS cuz 'it was on Gladiator' =_=

[Tellos Athenaios]

Makes sense. That strange reason, btw, is most likely that ever-corrupting influence on modern culture--Hollywood.

Yeah I know. It's a figure of speech really; not genuine wonder.

Have any EB members or players ever been to a reenactment?

About members, don't know; about players... well I'll let Hax answer for himself?