OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

[Askthepizzaguy]

You seem to be interacting with and threatening his career quite well!

In case anyone cares, I announced my intention to do exactly this, long before my computer died and it threw off my entire storyline.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=503

Was quite a while ago, in fact. No one said anything about it being unfair or against the rules before.

But if it's REALLY a problem, I am certain TinCow can remove all posts related to the senator in question. If it's ruining anyones gameplay experience, I can simply kill off Monomachos and drop from the game.

[Cecil XIX]

If he has no political or military career for us to threaten, then he has no political or military power to threaten us. Seems fair to me.

[TinCow]

Unaligned doesn't mean without an avatar, it just means that they're not a part of a House/Alliance. ATPG has an avatar and you can threaten him in the same manner as you can threaten everyone else. He may refuse to RP that avatar, but that's what his influence is based on, etc. I am not goint to tell ATPG how to interact IC, but his abilities in the game are still tied exclusively to his avatar.

Unless there are extraordinarily unusual circumstances that reduce me to tears at the very thought of the unfairness of the situation to the player, no one else will ever be allowed to play without an avatar. You don't have to move the avatar or fight any battles if you don't want to, but you must at least have one in the game somewhere. GH will be allowed to play in his current role until he gets a computer capable of playing M2TW or otherwise decides to leave the game. TF will be allowed to continue playing the Princess only until she dies. At that point, he must take an in-game avatar if he wants to keep playing.

[Privateerkev]

Just my 2 cents but I prefer if people play with their actual avatars, or characters tied to their avatars as much as possible. YLC has been using Veronica in the Senate but she is tied to his avatar, Iakovos. Which allows us to hold Iakovos responsible for what she says.

As for not saying anything sooner, you didn't really speak much ATPG until now.

IC I will simply not see that Senator as "legal" and ignore him. OOC, I do wish that people with avatars play their avatars but thats up to TC to decide.

I don't want you to drop from the game ATPG but it does get frusterating having someone yell at you that you can't really do anything about. If an avatar yells at you, there are real IC consequences that can be brought to bear. But generic electors basically have a free pass to say absolutely anything they want as long as the Emperor allows it.

*edit*

Nevermind, TC made his ruling while I was writing.

[Ituralde]

I am preparing a 'Guide' on how to play the Megas. As part of this, I will address the issue of breaking rules like this. The following will apply to all future Megas terms: If the Megas violates an OOC game rule and this violation is protested by a player (if no one protests, it must not be a serious violation) he will be given one turn to rectify the situation or begin rectifying the situation, if it would require multiple turns. If this is not done, or the rule is violated a second time, the Megas will be removed from office without an impeachment vote, and a new election will be held in an Emergency Session, in which the 'impeached' Megas will not be allowed to stand for re-election.

I really like this! Clear OOC regulations will hopefully prevent OOC matters spilling into the IC part of the game. I always find it hard to roleplay in those situations.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Just my 2 cents but I prefer if people play with their actual avatars, or characters tied to their avatars as much as possible. YLC has been using Veronica in the Senate but she is tied to his avatar, Iakovos. Which allows us to hold Iakovos responsible for what she says.

As for not saying anything sooner, you didn't really speak much ATPG until now.

IC I will simply not see that Senator as "legal" and ignore him. OOC, I do wish that people with avatars play their avatars but thats up to TC to decide.

I don't want you to drop from the game ATPG but it does get frusterating having someone yell at you that you can't really do anything about. If an avatar yells at you, there are real IC consequences that can be brought to bear. But generic electors basically have a free pass to say absolutely anything they want as long as the Emperor allows it.

*edit*

NM, TC posted this while I was writing.

From what you're telling me, PK, using this non-player character to speak for myself in Monomachos' absence will be frustrating and therefore make the game less fun.

That was never my intention.

I respectfully request that this NPC character be withdrawn and stricken from the record, as he has proved to be a less-than-fun distraction.

[Privateerkev]

From what you're telling me, PK, using this non-player character to speak for myself in Monomachos' absence will be frustrating and therefore make the game less fun.

That was never my intention.

I respectfully request that this NPC character be withdrawn and stricken from the record, as he has proved to be a less-than-fun distraction.

Nah, don't do that. I will just advocate IC for tying your NPC to your avatar. If you refuse, I will provide the IC consequence of "ignoring." I will also attempt to get him banned from the Magnaura.

But please keep in mind that is all IC, not OOC. OOC, TC has made it clear. You have an avatar, therefore you can RP what ever you wish. So, OOC this is settled for me.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Nah, don't do that. I will just advocate IC for tying your NPC to your avatar. If you refuse, I will provide the IC consequence of "ignoring." I will also attempt to get him banned from the Magnaura.

But please keep in mind that is all IC, not OOC. OOC, TC has made it clear. You have an avatar, therefore you can RP what ever you wish. So, OOC this is settled for me.

Not to beat this issue like a dead horse, but here's my thoughts.

IC/OOC often has a very blurred line. Your character won't interact with mine IC for reasons which are OOC. If this were "real", your character wouldn't be "aware" that this NPC is in fact an NPC, so therefore any issue your avatar has with this person is technically an OOC issue, now that the "rule" status of the character is settled.

May not seem like a big distinction, but it completely ruins the IC aspect of being in the senate for me. Which hampers my gameplay experience.



The mere fact that your character knows mine is a NPC which is different from the others destroys the illusion of reality. I'd never be able to use that character with that mess hanging over things, or create a story, or even confidently debate in the senate without voting.

It is as though we are all collectively writing a novel, but one of the characters refuses to interact with another character when the story calls for it, breaking the suspension of disbelief, and possibly the fourth wall. If on an episode of "I Love Lucy", Fred and Ethel show up with some nephew that wasn't in the script, Lucy would attempt to interact with Fred and Ethel but the nephew would speak and just be ignored. It would completely ruin the audience's ability to enjoy the story.

I understand your reasons for not wanting an IC interaction with this NPC, and those reasons make it impossible for me to effectively use the character. For me to proceed from this point on would make the senate a farce. And after all that, what would I have done? Basically ruined several people's enjoyment of the game, all for the sake of introducing a completely unimportant character which everyone will attempt to forget ever exists.

I'm afraid although TC has ruled this character is legal, he unfortunately suffers from Chuck Cunningham Syndrome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_D...am_Syndrome.22

A superfluous, out-of-place character whose minor interactions with others are best buried and forgotten. Or at the very least, written out of the story.

So, the "senator" in question can be quietly forgotten, dragged out of the senate in chains, or suddenly die of a heart attack. Whatever would best get the story moving again. I've determined that, under the circumstances, I can't really use such a character, and would not want to. It's already been too much of a distraction and I regret writing it.

[Cecil XIX]

You are correct, except for one thing: Your senator is not recognized as such in any official records, but he is speaking like he is. Makedonios does indeed have a justification for ignoring him that is entirely IC.

[Privateerkev]

IC/OOC often has a very blurred line. Your character won't interact with mine IC for reasons which are OOC. If this were "real", your character wouldn't be "aware" that this NPC is in fact an NPC, so therefore any issue your avatar has with this person is technically an OOC issue, now that the "rule" status of the character is settled.

May not seem like a big distinction, but it completely ruins the IC aspect of being in the senate for me. Which hampers my gameplay experience.

I guess the way I saw it, this Senator didn't have Efstratios's "seal" so Mak didn't see him as legitimate. From my way of thinking, this was a totally valid IC issue for me to pursue just like it was totally valid IC for you to put him in there.

I saw us both as pursuing things IC for IC reasons. If you think I picked on you IC with my OOC knowledge, then I truly apologize. I never try to do that.

Your right, IC/OOC is a blurry thing. I do the best I can with it.

[TinCow]

While RPGs by definition involve role-playing and story-telling, they are still above all else, games. The structure of this game requires that players' abilities and tangible interactions with the world and other players be done through their avatar. This is no different from Dungeons & Dragons or any other RPG system. We love to encourage creative story-telling and thinking in these games, so we also allow people to go beyond what a D&D type game would allow you to do in this context and players are free to create 'NPCs' and tangential storylines if they so desire. However, the game aspect of LotR will always take precedence. If you get banned from the Senate, all of your NPCs will also be banned, even if it doesn't make sense IC. This is because your avatar is your only true method of tangible interaction with the world and thus your avatar is also the way the rest of the world can have a tangible interaction with you. If you want to do role-playing and storytelling without any limits or consequences, I suggest you take a look in the Mead Hall.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

OOC and IC .. lines between them .. rules ..

This is giving me a headache .. please stop!

Another thing..

I hope TC finishes 'The Guide how to be the Megas' very soon..
So far it's been confusing.. the Megas can do what ever he wants but then again he can do nothing..
This have also been the reason I haven't proposed my candidacy to be the next Megas...

[TinCow]

The first draft of the Guide will be posted later today. I'm writing it under the assumption that my (as of yet unwritten) CA clarifying the Rules about RAs, PAs, and PBs will be passed.

[Rowan]

Well, since it took you almost one full term to get to Egypt your term would be almost over before you were back in civilization ;)

And, since TC managed to post about the issue at the same time, does the test game have any "constitutional" value? I mean if there are issues that were encountered during the test game and a solution was formed do we have to run into all the same issues again in LotR and codify them in CAs? Or can we just treat the test game as precedent?

[Privateerkev]

This have also been the reason I haven't proposed my candidacy to be the next Megas...

You need land as well.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

TC .. we will make sure they are passed

(now I have to think who these 'we' are )

[Ibn-Khaldun]

You need land as well.

And wat you think Efstathios is doing in Egypt then not getting one?

I'm sure he is not there because of the weather

[TinCow]

And, since TC managed to post about the issue at the same time, does the test game have any "constitutional" value? I mean if there are issues that were encountered during the test game and a solution was formed do we have to run into all the same issues again in LotR and codify them in CAs? Or can we just treat the test game as precedent?

Anything that was deemed sufficiently important from the Test Game has already been made part of the current rules. The Test Game no longer has any 'official' impact on LotR in any way, even if we encounter similar issues which did not end up being codified.

[Askthepizzaguy]

You are correct, except for one thing: Your senator is not recognized as such in any official records, but he is speaking like he is. Makedonios does indeed have a justification for ignoring him that is entirely IC.

True, but he is "an official delegate from the Durazzo province" who is the "replacement" for Senator Monomachos, filling out the "end of his term", rendering that point fairly moot.

It's just a big distraction, so I've decided to end his life in a most spectacular manner. So as not to distract from the actual Senate, here it is:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Taranto Giovinazzo, the impostor Senator, spy of the Kingdom of Sicily, is exposed by Makedonios for the fraud that he is, and the guards close in on him.

Just as they are about to capture him, Taranto Giovinazzo reaches inside his cloak and produces a grappling hook attached to a very long and sturdy rope. He whips the hook as hard as he can and it catches on one of the beams that run across the grand structure. With a jolly "ho ho!" the Sicilian spy swings over the palace guards and flips a full seventeen times in the air before landing on his feet.

The incredibly over-the-top and entirely unrealistic manner of his heroic escape has left him horribly, horribly dizzy and nauseated. Instead of rushing out of the senate to his inevitable freedom, he trips over his suspiciously large shoes and smacks his head against the stone floor. As blood pours from his forehead, Taranto attempts to regain his footing, but he is seeing stars, and lurches forward to vomit profusely.

Slipping in a puddle of his own abdominal spillage, he once again slips, this time landing on the back of his head. Blood pouring over his eyes, he struggles to turn over onto his stomach, but the slick stone floor prevents him from making any progress. He winces and cries out from the pain, and once again tries to get up. After several concussions and much blood loss, and twelve attempts to stand, Taranto finally rises to his feet and staggers towards an open window to escape.

Along the way, Taranto's mind begins to clear, and all the secrets of existence seem to be revealed to him. The severe brain damage he sustained against the floor somehow made the world seem simple and easy to understand. The meaning of existence, after centuries of discussion, is revealed simply to be the the logical, mathematically defined exception to all of the long odds against it's own being. For however unlikely is the birth of time and space and matter into existence, from nothingness, the mere fact that it is possible means that it is a mathematical certainty, given the infinite nature of nonexistence, that existence is possible. As for the meaning of life, it seems clear now that the purpose of human existence is to examine and document, as well as experience, the incredible and entirely unlikely possibility of the universe itself; to gain understanding over the nature of reality, metaphysics, mathematics, and harmony, and to take the lessons learned from that and apply it to one's personal code of ethics and philosophy, that one might bring reason, understanding, peace, harmony, and even life itself to other sentient beings, to help civilization discover more about this fantastic exception to the rule which is our very existence. The miracle of truth allowing the distinction between real and imaginary to generate the very fabric of our being, to allow for the concept of the laws of physics, of logic, of universal constants and the motion of time and space and energy, all while providing this existence with a form of justice.

As Taranto pondered whether or not a divine entity caused this great exception to nonbeing, and all the other metaphysical questions that have caused mankind to theorize and debate, and just as he was about to reveal to everyone in the Roman Imperial Senate the very truth of their existence, Taranto suffered a fatal burst of flatulence which caused him to explode, and the oil-fuelled lighting fixtures which provided light for the Senate chambers caused that gas to ignite into a massive fireball.

And so all that remained of Taranto Giovinazzo was a large spill of blood and vomit on the senate floor, and a large floppy clown shoe.

And a decidedly unpleasant odor.

[Privateerkev]

[Askthepizzaguy]

will do. Everyone should get a chance to enjoy the demise of a character, when he is gracious enough to expire in a humorous manner!

[Privateerkev]

will do. Everyone should get a chance to enjoy the demise of a character, when he is gracious enough to expire in a humorous manner!

Sorry, ATPG, when I realized my post could be seen as taking your joke too seriously, I edited it. I didn't know you saw it and was working off of it.

[Askthepizzaguy]

No, seriously, I thought it was a good idea. So, for the record, the Stories Thread will now contain a written record of these events, just in case anyone wants to easily find them.

I know this much; If I write something in the Magnaura, I cannot ever find it again.

[TinCow]

The first draft of the Megas Guide is now complete. All comments and criticisms are welcome. Please point out anything I missed or anything that should be improved/added.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Thank You TinCow!

[GeneralHankerchief]

I think there are two people waiting for PMs from me - apologies, guys. This is a busy week for me.

[Ferret]

I know this much; If I write something in the Magnaura, I cannot ever find it again.

If it's important enough OK will link to it in the history, which I appreciate greatly

[Ramses II CP]

Ye gods, Vissa is very glad he wasn't within a hundred miles of the senate to witness the exit of the 'Sicilian spy.' I wonder if they felt the concussion in Egypt.

[OverKnight]

If it's important enough OK will link to it in the history, which I appreciate greatly

If people want a discussion in the Magnaura to be linked into the history, please send me a PM with a link to the discussion, ie the post where it started, and a rationale for the request.

Obviously linking every post made in the Magnaura would add a great deal of work and jam up the History, so not everything is going to be catalouged. I usually link to the Senate when some memorable argument or hissy fit is taking place. Though this is in the eye of the beholder and I make no claim that I've linked to everything memorable.

The History does have a link to the Senate thread at the beginning of each term at least. So if you know which term you made a comment, you can use those links to search for it.

Edit: ATPG might want to edit in a link to the relevant Senate post that would introduce his story. Also linking in that Senate post to the story as well might help to alleviate some, if not all, of the confusion future generations might have when reading the History.

[Ignoramus]

I'm not very happy. When I loaded the save, fog of was off. Obviously Warmaster Horus had been looking at the save without the fog on. This is completely against the spirit of the game and gives unfair advantages to those who do it.