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Thread: OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

  1. #2461
    Senior Member Senior Member Ibn-Khaldun's Avatar
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    Default Re: OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

    I have made my decision and I don't want to fight this time PvP battle.
    I don't have the names of the characters turned on so I assumed that those are Kousinos and Vartholomaios when I made my moves. After I posted the save I alt-tabbed back to the game to advance couple of turns(I know I shouldn't do it but I don't take the save that often so I wanted to know what will happen in the next couple of turns). Only then I noticed that it was Io with his army and not Vartholomaios. So it was a little surprise to me to see Io there since we are at war.
    I'll be more careful next time.

    But let's not forget that I have many enemies and I can't remember all of their names and positions!(Theo is in 2 civil wars at the moment)

  2. #2462
    Alphonse la Hire Member Rowan's Avatar
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    Default Re: OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

    The situation in Levant certainly looks interesting.

    Now why do I have a feeling that the Order just got two whole stacks of troops swindled from them...

    Alphonse la Hire - Veteran of many battles seeking new employment
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    Vartholomaios Ksiros
    Grand Master of the Order of St. John
    Prince of Antioch and Protector of Levant

  3. #2463
    Member Member KnightnDay's Avatar
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    Default Re: OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

    If I can make sure that I have a good handle on things-

    Methodios is moving within his stack avatar Ioannis Tagaris. Is that an active avatar and if not, should that character not stay put? Not sure if this is some complex plan of TdCs for a spiritual transfer when the conqueror kicks the bucket

    There are two other family members Ioannis Komnenos in Constantinople, and Vakchos Tzetzis in Mecca region which I believe to be the other avatars which have no active player assigned. Is that correct?

  4. #2464
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

    Ioannis Tagaris has been reserved as Tristan's next avatar for a long time now. As Methodios is going to kick the bucket any day, it's perfectly fine that he move around with him. I would allow him to be teleported at the start of his new avatar anyway. I did a similar thing for YLC when he conquered Durazzo and then immediately switched avatars.

    Ioannis Komnenos the Second (in Constantinople, son of the Basileus of the same name) is Rodrico Stak, who will likely be going inactive this Senate session. So, if someone wants that avatar, he'll be freed up soon. Vakchos Tzetzis is Smowz.


  5. #2465
    The Search for Beefy Member TheFlax's Avatar
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    Default Re: OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

    Vakchos Tzetzis is played by Smowz if I remember correctly.

    edit: Beaten to it.
    Last edited by TheFlax; 01-25-2009 at 00:45.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    TheFlax needs to die on principle. No townie should even be that scummy.

  6. #2466
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

    Excellent story, YLC and TheFlax!

    I'd also like to thank everyone who's been active in LotR over the past couple weeks, especially Northnovas who's done a splendid job as Megas. It feels like the game is finally coming back to life, and that pleases me greatly.

    Thanks guys! I may not be a player, but having this game be fun means a lot to me.


  7. #2467
    The Search for Beefy Member TheFlax's Avatar
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    Default Re: OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

    YLC and I are trying to start the PvP fight, but for some reason we can't give YLC's avatar his silver chevrons.

    It just blocks at 3 bronze chevrons. I've tried upgrading my units and its the same for me. What should we do?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    TheFlax needs to die on principle. No townie should even be that scummy.

  8. #2468
    Illuminated Moderator Pogo Panic Champion, Graveyard Champion, Missle Attack Champion, Ninja Kid Champion, Pop-Up Killer Champion, Ratman Ralph Champion GeneralHankerchief's Avatar
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    Default Re: OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

    I forgot that was an MP quirk.

    I suggested rescaling chevrons in a PM, but you guys would have to work out the exact specifics.
    "I'm going to die anyway, and therefore have nothing more to do except deliberately annoy Lemur." -Orb, in the chat
    "Lemur. Even if he's innocent, he's a pain; so kill him." -Ignoramus
    "I'm going to need to collect all of the rants about the guilty lemur, and put them in a pretty box with ponies and pink bows. Then I'm going to sprinkle sparkly magic dust on the box, and kiss it." -Lemur
    Mafia: Promoting peace and love since June 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by TosaInu
    At times I read back my own posts [...]. It's not always clear at first glance.


  9. #2469
    The Search for Beefy Member TheFlax's Avatar
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    Default Re: OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

    YLC suggested giving his avatar the bronze weapon and bronze armor upgrade.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    TheFlax needs to die on principle. No townie should even be that scummy.

  10. #2470
    Illuminated Moderator Pogo Panic Champion, Graveyard Champion, Missle Attack Champion, Ninja Kid Champion, Pop-Up Killer Champion, Ratman Ralph Champion GeneralHankerchief's Avatar
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    Default Re: OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

    If you both agree that the upgrades make up for the loss of morale bonus, go for it.
    "I'm going to die anyway, and therefore have nothing more to do except deliberately annoy Lemur." -Orb, in the chat
    "Lemur. Even if he's innocent, he's a pain; so kill him." -Ignoramus
    "I'm going to need to collect all of the rants about the guilty lemur, and put them in a pretty box with ponies and pink bows. Then I'm going to sprinkle sparkly magic dust on the box, and kiss it." -Lemur
    Mafia: Promoting peace and love since June 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by TosaInu
    At times I read back my own posts [...]. It's not always clear at first glance.


  11. #2471
    Illuminated Moderator Pogo Panic Champion, Graveyard Champion, Missle Attack Champion, Ninja Kid Champion, Pop-Up Killer Champion, Ratman Ralph Champion GeneralHankerchief's Avatar
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    Default Re: OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

    Okay, as it turns out the only silver and above unit is YLC's Bodyguard. If both sides confirm that an extra weapon/armor upgrade (plus, of course, three bronze chevrons) is a suitable replacement, then we're good to go with no rescaling necessary.
    "I'm going to die anyway, and therefore have nothing more to do except deliberately annoy Lemur." -Orb, in the chat
    "Lemur. Even if he's innocent, he's a pain; so kill him." -Ignoramus
    "I'm going to need to collect all of the rants about the guilty lemur, and put them in a pretty box with ponies and pink bows. Then I'm going to sprinkle sparkly magic dust on the box, and kiss it." -Lemur
    Mafia: Promoting peace and love since June 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by TosaInu
    At times I read back my own posts [...]. It's not always clear at first glance.


  12. #2472
    The Search for Beefy Member TheFlax's Avatar
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    Default Re: OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

    After much hassle, the battle is over.

    You can now all witness the depth of my mediocrity and ineptitude by watching the glorious replay posted in the battle thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    TheFlax needs to die on principle. No townie should even be that scummy.

  13. #2473
    Wandering Metsuke Senior Member Zim's Avatar
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    Default Re: OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

    While I may be taking a risk by saying this before watching the replay ( ) I bet you put forth a good effort. I saw that map you fought on...
    Last edited by Zim; 01-25-2009 at 06:19.
    V&V RIP Helmut Becker, Duke of Bavaria.



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  14. #2474
    The Count of Bohemia Senior Member Cecil XIX's Avatar
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    Default Re: OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

    Well done to the both of you, as well as Tincow and GH for getting this set up. Looks like things went smoothly.

    Next time though, it would be nice if we could download the replay without having to skim past the results of the battle. It'd be pretty cool to watch one of these and not know the results until you see them.

  15. #2475
    Cthonic God of Deception Member ULC's Avatar
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    Default Re: OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

    I will have mine soon up as well - I hope you enjoyed it though

    Anyone have a critique of play though? I'd like to know how well TF and I did

  16. #2476
    The Search for Beefy Member TheFlax's Avatar
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    Default Re: OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil XIX View Post
    Looks like things went smoothly.
    Honestly, no it didn't go smoothly. No one is too blame save the inherent instability of this game in multiplayer. I took YLC and I about 4h to finally get to play the battle in full, quite frustration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil XIX View Post
    Next time though, it would be nice if we could download the replay without having to skim past the results of the battle. It'd be pretty cool to watch one of these and not know the results until you see them.
    I'll keep that in mind. If I had remembered how spoilers work I would have placed the pics in those.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    TheFlax needs to die on principle. No townie should even be that scummy.

  17. #2477
    The Count of Bohemia Senior Member Cecil XIX's Avatar
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    Default Re: OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

    Quote Originally Posted by YLC View Post
    Anyone have a critique of play though? I'd like to know how well TF and I did
    I'll give it a try. Of course, I welcome a critique of my critique.

    YLC - Your tactic of having your infantry wait in comfort while the enemy approached you uphill was sound, and you did well to exploit the fact that TheFlax's front lines were too far forward with your 1st cavalry charge. I think the second charge was ill-advised though, since the TheFlax changed his formation to defend against it. And without the Militia Cavalry you had to withdraw your Skythikon even further back for protection. I would have had the Skythikon pepper the enemy line with arrows as you did, kept the Militia Cavalry close to protect them as well as hit targets of opportunity, and kept your general between your infantry and cavalry to force The Flax to commit his own general in order to chase off your Skythikons.

    It was a good idea to charge TheFlax's lines before they made contact with your own, but I think it would have worked better if you had your infantry charge down hill also. They would have been able to exploit the disruption caused by the Knights. Also, TheFlax left gaps in his line both before and after your charge that you refused to attempt to exploit.

    Once the lines met, you did a good job using your general. You defeated his exposed Feudal Knights and kept yourself behind his lines, hurting his men's morale.

    Overall I think your tactics were sound, and made good use of terrain. You also chose well in focusing your attention on eliminating his cavalry as a factor, allowing your own complete control. Some minor quibbles, but aside from not exploiting the gap in his formation I don't think you could have done fundamentally better. B+

    TheFlax - You should have gotten your formation straight at the start before you started advancing. By having your forward units too far out you left them vulnerable to the cavalry charge, which YLC exploited to great effect. Also, you should have started out with your spearmen at the front. But you recovered well, and when YLC tried the same thing again you stopped him cold. You should also always have your soldiers facing YLC's line so as to get the maximum protection against his arrow fire. The important thing at the beginning was not to let the Skythikon annoy you into making mistakes like tiring your troops out to early, as their arrowfire by itself would not cause too much damage.

    You should have had your soldiers in a line, ready to crash into his, before you got close. YLC could have easily charged his men downhill while your soldiers were still in square formations, leaving gaps between your units. You also left a huge gap in your center when you sent your infantry to chase Anargiros. Since you had the advantage in infantry numbers and quality, your best bet would have been to advance your infantry in a uniform line, keeping both your calvary units opposite his general.

    Once the lines met and the melee began, your biggest mistake was not keeping your cavalry together. YLC was able to whittle them down. He used his much more effectively. At that point he was free to march behind your lines, and you couldn't stop him. At that point you had too choices. Either sound the retreat, and get your men captured instead of slaughter, or get behind *his* line and execute some hit-and-run charges in the hopes of harming the morale of his generally-low morale militia.

    Finally, you chose to commit your general to a battle he could not win. Of course, that can be an RP choice. Pride is an important thing after all.

    I recognize you were in a bad situation, so these results may not even be largely your fault. But you failed to prevent him from disrupting your advance, you didn't make use of our advantage in infantry, you left your cavalry divided and vulnerable. A D+, since you corrected your mistakes as the battle went on. You have my sympathies.

    Finally, here's a picture from the battle that I took of Helarionas and Markos, taken a few second before Markos' capture.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  18. #2478
    The Search for Beefy Member TheFlax's Avatar
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    Default Re: OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

    Thanks for the analysis Cecil XIX. I must admit I usually have a pretty poor control over my own units, but I special mention must go to the lag I kept having, making my tenuous control often evaporate completely. At many points during the battle, everything stuttered and for most of the battle my units, more often than not, responded with a delay I can only attribute to the lag. (Its not my comp as I can run huge battles at the best settings without problem.)

    I'm not trying to make excuses or take away YLC's victory, in my opinion he earned it, but I thought I should point out this attenuating circumstance. Mainly though, I lost because I am not very good at playing out M2TW battles.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    TheFlax needs to die on principle. No townie should even be that scummy.

  19. #2479
    Member Member Ituralde's Avatar
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    Default Re: OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

    That battle looked like fun! I'm a miserable MPer myself so you have my sympathy TheFlax. Congratulations to YLC on the win though. This should keep things interesting for the future.
    The lions sing and the hills take flight.
    The moon by day, and the sun by night.
    Blind woman, deaf man, jackdaw fool.
    Let the Lord of Chaos rule.

    —chant from a children's game heard in Great Aravalon, the Fourth Age

  20. #2480
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

    Very well done to both. That's one for the record books: the first MP battle in any Throne Room game, ever. Watching the replay was very exciting, I loved it!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlax View Post
    Honestly, no it didn't go smoothly. No one is too blame save the inherent instability of this game in multiplayer. I took YLC and I about 4h to finally get to play the battle in full, quite frustration.
    If you can give me details about what problems you had, I'd be grateful. I want to encourage MP battles like this, as they are the fastest and most accurate method of resolving PvP. You have my since apologies for the chevron limit issue. Having never played MP myself, I did not realize that existed. I should have tested the setup in the MP rather than just via a custom battle.


  21. #2481
    Prince Louis of France (KotF) Member Ramses II CP's Avatar
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    Default Re: OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

    As someone who has never played MP either (Though I tried to arrange a battle for a hotseat once!) you guys have my sympathies. MTWII MP is, at best, unpolished. The battle still looked like fun though, and as an old computer gamer all I can say is that the fortunes of war often include lag. Hopefully we will have more of these, even if they're akward, because even under these circumstances at least you aren't relying on a third party to implement your orders.

    I won't analyze the battle as I've never fought anything but the AI, and the AI would've been crushed by either of you guys in that fight.


  22. #2482
    The Search for Beefy Member TheFlax's Avatar
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    Default Re: OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

    Ok, I'll go through a few of the basic problems we encountered. TinCow, the chevron thing was honestly not a major time waster, we quickly agreed on how to work it out and if that was the only problem we had encountered I would have said that things went smoothly.

    First off, playing through gamespy was impossible for us. When either of us hosted the game, the other got "NAT negotiation failed" preventing us to connect. So then I got YLC to download Hamachi (its a software program that creates a virtual LAN over the internet.) and we met up in the LAN lobby. The first try went pretty well, considering, and I actually won the battle. I'll admit to my noobish mistake here, we had to restart since I had taken the wrong General unit (I took the late era one.) For the next two hours or so, we had a series of problem getting a game started. YLC got disconnected a couple of times before I could actually start the game. A few other time he got the message "No response from Host" and there were also at least two times when he got disconnected during the battle itself. We also realized after the first battle that it was impossible to retreat in MP. We decided to houserule that any units getting to the red line was to be considered having retreated.

    I want to have a chat with whoever coded the MP part of the game...
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    TheFlax needs to die on principle. No townie should even be that scummy.

  23. #2483
    Illuminated Moderator Pogo Panic Champion, Graveyard Champion, Missle Attack Champion, Ninja Kid Champion, Pop-Up Killer Champion, Ratman Ralph Champion GeneralHankerchief's Avatar
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    Default Re: OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

    You guys don't think anything having to do with the mod itself caused your problems then?
    "I'm going to die anyway, and therefore have nothing more to do except deliberately annoy Lemur." -Orb, in the chat
    "Lemur. Even if he's innocent, he's a pain; so kill him." -Ignoramus
    "I'm going to need to collect all of the rants about the guilty lemur, and put them in a pretty box with ponies and pink bows. Then I'm going to sprinkle sparkly magic dust on the box, and kiss it." -Lemur
    Mafia: Promoting peace and love since June 2006

    Quote Originally Posted by TosaInu
    At times I read back my own posts [...]. It's not always clear at first glance.


  24. #2484
    The Search for Beefy Member TheFlax's Avatar
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    Default Re: OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

    It seemed pretty much only connection issues, so I don't think the mod had any impact on our problems.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    TheFlax needs to die on principle. No townie should even be that scummy.

  25. #2485
    Member Member 5 Card Draw Champion, Mini Pool 2 Champion, Ice Hockey Champion, Mahjong Connect Champion Northnovas's Avatar
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    Default Re: OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

    That is the first time I have watched a replay, that was neat. It would seem to be a nice way to resolve a PvP. Though I have never done any MP. It is unfortunate the technical issue had to interfere with the process.
    Overall nice job by YLC and TheFlax the story is not over yet!

    I have read TC's pm about the rules in place and I will pick up the save to advance the turn in a couple hours I just have somethings to finish up before getting into the game.

  26. #2486
    The Count of Bohemia Senior Member Cecil XIX's Avatar
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    Default Re: OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

    This is a shameless plug, but I'm starting a game to test some new ideas for WOTS-style PBEMs here. I only have room for to start with 2-4 other people, so act fast!

  27. #2487
    Member Member KnightnDay's Avatar
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    Default Re: OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

    I did the replay a couple times and made a few notes.

    This was the basic formation with which The Flax started his advance

    GB(23) Slav(90) Slav(90) Slav(90)

    ---------------------------------------PrSpear(112) PRSpear(112

    ---------Mace(90) Mace(90)


    --------------Crossbow(90)

    --------------------------------------------------FeudalKnight(60)
    ______________________________________________________________

    I agree with CecilXIX that I would have kept the cavalry together for more impact. A strategic reserve can save the day and the lack of one can have the opposite effect.

    What I also would note here is that the crossbows were a non-factor throughout the battle. They are primarily a direct fire weapon, not indirect like archers. I would have had them at the very front, ready to run back behind a spear wall in the event of a cavalry charge

    The battle was essentially decided early at time index 1770 when the militia cavalry slammed into the two left most Slav Levies. Together those formations lost 110 men at the cost of a single militia cavalry. The left most SL formation was almost instantaneously rendered ineffective for the rest of the battle with only 11 men surviving the charge.

    The casualty percentage at that point was 15/2 and that 13% gap, although fluctuating throughout, meant the difference by the time The Flax's tired troops finally enered the melee stage and eventually broke from exhaustion.

    Another point I noted that at time index 2614, there were 50 feudal knights sweeping forward with a gradual move left. By time index 4300, they were down to 18 knights with little real contact. The reason was that after they advanced forward and chased off their quary, they faced themselves rearward and for considerable time showed their backs to the enemy. The skythions made their opponents dearly for that as a large number of feudal knights were hit in the hind quarters.

    At time index 4557, YLC sends his bodyguard after a Slav Levy with 24 men. Shortly thereafter the melee begins and it's a matter of fresh troops vs a tired and depleted set from the uphill climb. With no reserves to counter, the repeated charges including YLCs cav militia break the spirit of The Flax's troops and the routing begins.

    So, from of all this a couple things. Using the ALT key and right clicking will keep all your grouped formations in order. It seems that in an MP setting this can be very helpful where you won't get separated.

    If you are worried about arrows, consider going to loose formation.

    Crossbows front where possible. At time index 1647, YLCs Cav did a rather casual march across the front of The Flax's lines, and those crossbows could have had a field day, much as the skythions did with the feudal knights.

    Definitely entertaining overall. I'd be curious to know one thing. The Flax is in Montreal from what I understand. Is YLC half a world away or on the same continent?
    Last edited by KnightnDay; 01-26-2009 at 03:16.

  28. #2488
    Cthonic God of Deception Member ULC's Avatar
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    Default Re: OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

    New York

  29. #2489
    The Search for Beefy Member TheFlax's Avatar
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    Default Re: OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

    Quote Originally Posted by KnightnDay View Post

    So, from of all this a couple things. Using the ALT key and right clicking will keep all your grouped formations in order. It seems that in an MP setting this can be very helpful where you won't get separated.

    If you are worried about arrows, consider going to loose formation.

    Crossbows front where possible. At time index 1647, YLCs Cav did a rather casual march across the front of The Flax's lines, and those crossbows could have had a field day, much as the skythions did with the feudal knights.
    The things you learn!

    Honestly, I'm a bit clueless about many aspects of this game, thanks for the advice.

    Also, on an unrelated note. I had a mercenary captain?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    TheFlax needs to die on principle. No townie should even be that scummy.

  30. #2490
    Wandering Metsuke Senior Member Zim's Avatar
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    Default Re: OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

    Did the patch for LotR eliminate some of the supply traits? I just noticed a lack of "your army has x turns worth of food left" traits that were common at the start of LotR.
    V&V RIP Helmut Becker, Duke of Bavaria.



    Come to the Throne Room for hotseats and TW rpgs!

    Kermit's made a TWS2 guide? Oh, the other frog....

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