Removing Armourer's as a build requirement

[Kaidonni]

I know how to remove buildings as a build requirement for units, but I'm just wondering if doing this to the Armourer line of buildings would unbalance the game? I haven't changed the other requirements for units or anything, or increased them, just removed the Armourers. Should that be enough? I'm doing this for the fear that the AI won't be able to build some units due to their requirements, but I also fear them getting too easy access to units. HOWEVER, I don't want to be forever modding, I haven't played a Total War game proper in ages...so, should I just take the plunge and remove the Armourers as pre-requisites, and see what happens? I suppose it could be fun (I'm playing Expert as the Swedish, fortunately the changes show up in my current game - although it is only turn 1, LOL!). But then there are the other buildings, too, such as Inns...I suppose I should leave the Armourers in...

[bondovic]

This certainly is a delicate matter. Getting the AI to field better armies is easy enough - simply remove every bad unit from the game and lower tech reqs and cost to something merely symbolic. Maintaining gameplay while using this strategy, however, is, at least for me, inconcievable.

How to balance it out? TBH I feel that the XL crew has come pretty darn close. Better infrastructure from the start, bumped farm income and tuned AI preferential values combined make for better armies.

Personally, I feel that most units should be obtainable from castle-level. Only some really elite bad boys should need the citadel (which will be worthwhile still, since there's a valour bonus from master level buildings). Thus all guild-level troop producers should be available at castle-level. The fortress should be given something extra, like a farm 100% bonus, aside from the benefit of the military academy. Perhaps also even more money attached to the special fortress-level buildings.

Removing the armourer line? Remove the effetcs of the line, I'd say. But it can serve it's purposes still. Like Muwahids at Spearmaker2 and Saracens at Spearmaker2 + Armourer1. This way you don't have to go to castle to get Saracens but still need a little more effort to go beyond Muwahids.

[caravel]

If you remove the armourer building line from the build prod file, then you need to remove all references to it in the unit prod file as well.

I have found that the best way to deal with armourers is to remove the bonuses they confer, but to keep them as a prerequisite for units. Adding a small income to the "smith" type buildings is also a good idea and it means that a faction gets a return on it's investment. This also compensates from the AI's poor trading.

[Kaidonni]

Hmmm...some factions don't always get units from the Armourer line...is it complicated to limit the availability of specific Armourer levels to certain factions? Or would it simply be best to eliminate the bonuses they confer and leave it at that?

EDIT: I'm gonna eliminate the bonuses and provide a financial incentive. Metalsmiths gone entirely, and the Armourer bonuses will be 75, 150, 300 and 600 florins, respective of level (they cost 400, 600, 800 and 1000 in Tyberius' mod).

EDIT 2: Okay, problem. I have figured HOW to get the game to make Armourer's produce income, but I've used CATHEDRAL_INCOME as the, er, building type. It doesn't output the income I want. I'm beginning to think it's an integer? Or something special?

Here is the entire entry:

3	ARMOURER	"Armourer, Armourers Workshop, Armourers Guild, Master Armourer"	"NON_PRODUCER, CATHEDRAL_INCOME"	" 400, 600, 800, 1000"	"2, 4, 6, 8"	"{{CASTLE4,BOWYER},{CASTLE4,SPEARMAKER}},{CASTLE7,ARMOURER},{CASTLE10,ARMOURER2},{CASTLE13, ARMOURER3}"	"Workshop Level 1, Workshop Level 2, Workshop Level 3, Workshop Level 4"		"POVERTY_STRICKEN(155), DESPERATE_DEFENCE(450), CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST(450), CATHOLIC_NAVAL_EXPANSIONIST(450), CATHOLIC_TRADER(450), CATHOLIC_CRUSADER_TRADER(450), CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST_CRUSADER(450), CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE_CRUSADER(450), POPE(450), CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE(450), CATHOLIC_ISOLATIONIST(450), ORTHODOX_DEFENSIVE(450), ORTHODOX_EXPANSIONIST(450), ORTHODOX_STAGNANT(450), MUSLIM_PEACEFUL(450), MUSLIM_EXPANSIONIST(450), MUSLIM_DEVOUT(450), BARBARIAN_RAIDER(400), REBELS(100), CLOSE_TO_SUPPORT_LIMIT(0), POVERTY_STRICKEN(7.5), DESPERATE_DEFENCE(225), CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST(225), CATHOLIC_NAVAL_EXPANSIONIST(225), CATHOLIC_TRADER(225), CATHOLIC_CRUSADER_TRADER(225), CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST_CRUSADER(225), CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE_CRUSADER(225), POPE(225), CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE(225), CATHOLIC_ISOLATIONIST(225), ORTHODOX_DEFENSIVE(225), ORTHODOX_EXPANSIONIST(225), ORTHODOX_STAGNANT(225), MUSLIM_PEACEFUL(225), MUSLIM_EXPANSIONIST(225), MUSLIM_DEVOUT(225), BARBARIAN_RAIDER(275), REBELS(200), CLOSE_TO_SUPPORT_LIMIT(0), POVERTY_STRICKEN(11.25), DESPERATE_DEFENCE(250), CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST(250), CATHOLIC_NAVAL_EXPANSIONIST(250), CATHOLIC_TRADER(250), CATHOLIC_CRUSADER_TRADER(250), CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST_CRUSADER(250), CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE_CRUSADER(250), POPE(270), CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE(250), CATHOLIC_ISOLATIONIST(250), ORTHODOX_DEFENSIVE(250), ORTHODOX_EXPANSIONIST(250), ORTHODOX_STAGNANT(250), MUSLIM_PEACEFUL(250), MUSLIM_EXPANSIONIST(250), MUSLIM_DEVOUT(250), BARBARIAN_RAIDER(112.5), REBELS(225), CLOSE_TO_SUPPORT_LIMIT(0), POVERTY_STRICKEN(16.875), DESPERATE_DEFENCE(337.5), CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST(337.5), CATHOLIC_NAVAL_EXPANSIONIST(337.5), CATHOLIC_TRADER(337.5), CATHOLIC_CRUSADER_TRADER(337.5), CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST_CRUSADER(337.5), CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE_CRUSADER(337.5), POPE(405), CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE(337.5), CATHOLIC_ISOLATIONIST(337.5), ORTHODOX_DEFENSIVE(337.5), ORTHODOX_EXPANSIONIST(337.5), ORTHODOX_STAGNANT(337.5), MUSLIM_PEACEFUL(337.5), MUSLIM_EXPANSIONIST(337.5), MUSLIM_DEVOUT(337.5), BARBARIAN_RAIDER(168.75), REBELS(337.5), CLOSE_TO_SUPPORT_LIMIT(0), "	"{SWORDSMITH(50),HORSE_BREEDER2(50),ROYAL_COURT(50)},{SWORDSMITH2(75),HORSE_BREEDER3(75),ROYAL_COURT2(100)},{SWORDSMITH3(100),HORSE_BREEDER3(100),HORSE_BREEDER4(100),ROYAL_COURT3(100)},{HORSE_BREEDER4(100),SPEARMAKER4(100)}"	NO						"2,3,4,5"					"75, 150, 300, 600"					

Also, removing the Metalsmith seems to result in CTDs...I'm figuring I end up doing something wrong there, just deleting the Metalsmith entry in the build_prod.txt. Fortunately, all other changes (that don't result in a crash) show up in my current Swedish campaign. I also figure that, whether there are spaces after the commas in the income line or not, it doesn't seem to make any difference, it doesn't crash the game.

Heh, look at me, I'm actually modding MTW, and I never knew I'd be going that way. At least it works (unlike my attempts in M2TW...).

[bondovic]

EDIT 2: Okay, problem. I have figured HOW to get the game to make Armourer's produce income, but I've used CATHEDRAL_INCOME as the, er, building type. It doesn't output the income I want. I'm beginning to think it's an integer? Or something special?

Here's the deal. I haven't actually changed income on buildings, but it looks kinda straight forward. In the build_prod just modify the value in column 23 to get what you want from your buildings. It does seem, though, that "cathedral income" is the kind of income that doesn't work for generation type buildings such as the armourer line. Or at least that's what I imagine.

Instead I think you should try rolling with the "Lev1_income", the same that is used for mines. I could be wrong, with the Lev1 just working with 2-level-lines. But try it and report back. I'm curios if not anything else.

[caravel]

it's best not to delete buildings from the build prod, just change the faction association so that no one can build it.

The metalsmith line is useful. I renamed it to the blacksmith and used it as a prerequisite building for peasant class, axe and all cavalry (shoes, bridle and bit etc) units.

Edit: also the income you enter in the build prod is not the income you get, I'm not sure how it's worked out as I haven't modded the game now for quite a long time.

[Kaidonni]

LEV1_INCOME doesn't work at all. It seems I have to have CATHEDRAL_INCOME included, there doesn't seem to be any other building type available for income generating buildings (unless I try the trading post type line, but that might not be a good idea, I suspect it'll act exactly like any trading post). Also, I just had a thought, and am in the process of experimenting. A value of 100 equals 52 florins, and 200 equals 104 florins. It seems that the income values in the build_prod.txt files are percentages, and it is possible that 52 florins equals 100%. 52/100x75 = 39 florins, exactly what I got when I set the income value to 75.

EDIT: Just experimented with Byzantines in Early, changing the construction time for the Armourer line. It seems that it works for a generational set of buildings. Armourer=52 florins, Armourer's Workshop=104 florins, Armourer's Guild=208 florins. Gonna just do one more test, changing Fortress construction time too...

EDIT 2: Yep, Master Armourer=416 florins income per turn. Seems that it works fine now. It doubles every year. A value of 800 seems to be equal to 52 florins*8, and so on and so forth.

EDIT 3: Er...how do I ensure no one can build the Metalsmith? Or shall I give that a similar financial bonus, and still allow people to build it? On second thoughts...no, I want to remove it. I try NO_FACTION, but it seems that the Iron Mine is still stated as a pre-requisite to the Metalsmith+, and I was figuring it wouldn't say that if no one could build it...or if I couldn't build it.