MTW-Redux Beta Released!

[western]

Axalon

Tried the Italians tonight. Everything seems good. The rebels in the papal states are Apulians when they should be something more northern like marchese or anconans- but that is probably straight from vanilla.

I note that wars are slow to come in redux. Factions build strong armies before they finally attack. But I like that - who goes to war without a bit of planning first??

[Axalon]

Hi there Western,

This is good stuff you are reporting here, the Apulian stuff is probably vanilla as you say. Slow wars? Hm, it’s just as well, why go to war unprepared... Right? What are you playing the next time? It would good to know, so I don’t play the same factions as you.

[western]

I will have a go at the English next I think - and see if the vikings come after me.

[Axalon]

Western:Thanks for that info, I sure appreciate it. Good hunting!

Ciaran: I also got some answers here for you, hello by the way. I will start from the top and work my way down here…

“Regarding higher costs and excess money: How does that affect the AI? My impression is that the AI isn´t particularly adept at managing it´s coffers… …; so I´m a bit afraid that the AI will never be able to collect the means to upgrade its provinces or to use decent troops.”

Well, in theory, the way you stated this, it sure makes a lot of sense. In reduxed practice however, it's a very different story...

“How does that affect the AI?”

Technically it doesn’t, as far as I can tell at least. However, the higher prices do have an effect on how easy it is for the AI to actually realize various things. Once the AI has its priorities stated, it follows those regardless of the cost. As far as building installations/buildings goes at any rate. If no florins are available, it simply waits.

“…the AI will never be able to collect the means to upgrade its provinces or to use decent troops.”

My experience with redux is that the AI (for various reasons) actually delivers more varied troops and thus armies than in the original. In these armies the AI have a tendency to also include some high quality troops such as “champion”, “feudal champions”, “Byzantine palaceguard” or ”royal guard” to name a few examples (all dependent on which faction it is of course). The fact that redux has more or less an entirely different set of “new” troops is of course a factor, but I find it very unlikely that this is the only reason for the AIs “interesting” behavior. The AI seems to prefer a mix between all arms (archer/infantry/cavalry etc.) if possible, regardless if it’s cheap or expensive troops, within the boundaries of what is currently available (this of course dependent on region, existing buildings and relevant tech-trees).

Since the tech-trees of redux is very different from those existing in the original, the circumstances that follows are also very different. Because of that you will end up with armies that are different. All of this seems to create an end-result that is more diverse, which usually means that it is harder to face such a foe on the battlefield, regardless of the fact that prices are higher. I realize this may sound strange but this is what really happens in redux, in spite of the harsher economical frameworks applied.

“…the AI will never be able to collect the means to upgrade its provinces…”

Yes, it’s harder for each and every faction to get a broad and solid “high-end” war production going. Fewer castles are built, meaning fewer places to recruit troops in, meaning fewer troops running around on the “stratmap” and smaller support expenses. Fewer troops means also that the importance of quality, when available, increases. And it seems that the redux-AI corresponds fairly well to those circumstances.

The importance of well developed provinces are vital in redux, because they usually are harder to come by. The flaw here might be that the AI does not fully recognize the need to protect these key-provinces properly in some cases, which of course is very stupid. The AI is a shameless coward, and will only fight if it “feels” sure of success. It does not fully understand that some provinces are more important than others, at least when it comes to defending them. On the offensive however, the AI is a bit wiser and usually will invade the richest (which usually means the most developed) province that are within its reach on the “stratmap”.

However, as a redux-SPC goes on, more and more provinces do get developed and the effects of the AI’s cowardice are less and less devastating for every faction that has managed to develop other key provinces. Since the redux-AI at least, likes to build stuff even if it is expensive. Hence provinces do get developed, but in another way and not in all over the map (simultaneously). A few posts up, Western confirms that even the rebels (notoriously bad regarding economy-stuff in the original) in redux manages to get by, in spite of the harsher economical framework. And it’s not because of the build embargos (although they do help), because I checked that.

Many territories in redux usually have plenty of buildings in place, but that does not necessarily mean that the AI also automatically places some defending castles there (even if resources for it are available). Thus making it more attractive for some one else to invade and continue to develop the area upon the costly investments already made by the enemy! This is a very common scenario. Since florins usually are in limited supply, the redux-AI seems to be quite a farmer, desperate to get some more florins for other more grand buildings perhaps?



To sum things up then;

I could be wrong here (by all means correct me), but to me it seems that you based your fears upon the assumption that facts retrieved from the original game would somehow be valid or the same for redux. But redux is quite different actually and therefore most of those facts become invalid and incorrect. With the result that your fears don’t add up correctly to the actual and ruling circumstances found in redux. Because of that, I suggest that you get rid of those fears, since they won’t do you any justice here.

If you not already tried out redux, feel free to do so, and find out all about it for yourself.



- Cheers

(BTW, I don’t want any rep as some sort of “monster poster”, but I trying to get you guys some good answers on redux here, and that tends to get big).

[Ciaran]

Why, thanks for your encompassing answer.

If you not already tried out redux, feel free to do so, and find out all about it for yourself.

I´ll do that, when I manage to get MTW to install properly again, since you definitely have piqued my interest.

[axel]

Hi mate
If i use the Redux 1.0 and the beta fix do i still have to put the Islamic castle fix in as wel?
And dose it it matter where i download this wonderfull mod ? i see a lot of download links are they all the same mod?

[Axalon]

Hi guys,

Ciaran: when you come around to it, I hope you’ll have much fun with redux.

Axel: All you need is MTW-REDUX 1.0 and the VI/2.01-BETA (available at the VI/2.01 debug thread). The Islamic castle bug and the “Moorish opening” problems get fixed when applying the VI-beta (which by the way seems to be very stable and have worked just fine so far). The ISLAMIC CASTLE FIX is only relevant those people who are running redux upon a 1.1 version of MTW.

The reason for the multiple links is an old habit of mine; “always provide an extra separate backup link, for all important material, if one link should ever turn out to be bad.” That’s why there are two links to almost all redux stuff, just use ”link1” (which is filefront, no: 2 is the Atomic gamer upload) on everything if you feel uncertain here. Enjoy!


- Cheers

(Bughunt-update; Spain seems to be working just fine)

[axel]

ok mate thx
but one more question, I only need Medieval total war not with the Viking invasion? and do i patch Medieval up?
after i install it ill play the game and let you know any bugs

[Ciaran]

Hi guys,

Ciaran: when you come around to it, I hope you’ll have much fun with redux.

Axel: All you need is MTW-REDUX 1.0 and the VI/2.01-BETA (available at the VI/2.01 debug thread). The Islamic castle bug and the “Moorish opening” problems get fixed when applying the VI-beta (which by the way seems to be very stable and have worked just fine so far). The ISLAMIC CASTLE FIX is only relevant those people who are running redux upon a 1.1 version of MTW.

The reason for the multiple links is an old habit of mine; “always provide an extra separate backup link, for all important material, if one link should ever turn out to be bad.” That’s why there are two links to almost all redux stuff, just use ”link1” (which is filefront, no: 2 is the Atomic gamer upload) on everything if you feel uncertain here. Enjoy!


- Cheers

(Bughunt-update; Spain seems to be working just fine)

Now there´s a philosophy I can easily subscribe to. I usually download anything that looks like I might need or want sometime later, because with the internet, you never know how long any given content will be available.

By the way, which version would you suggest (when I install I´ll get MTW 1.1 before I install VI, and, after all, I can have multiple installations of MTW on my harddrive).