MTW-Redux Beta Released!

[Axalon]

Hi guys,

Ciaran: Im not the guy who’s trying to tell you how to run things on your PC or anything, but you could always do this;

1. Copy your MTW-XL-Tyberius install to somewhere, uninstall the regular copy (it’s probably the reason for all the fuzz), install MTW again, and make a copy of that. Install VI on one of the copies. And then install Redux and VI/2.01-beta + Tac-fix or the ordinary version on one of the regular MTW copies (however, a bit unstable and you need the “Islamic castle fix” there).

2. Copy your XL-Tyberius MTW and install redux over that (with VI-Beta +Tac-Fix). It should probably work just fine but you will have alot of junk within that install.

Western: Regarding the horde of ballista’s; it’s an old bug from original MTW, had it myself, usually with mangonels. Solution; remove all entries in column: 11 for all siege weapons in the “CRUSADERS_UNIT_PROD11.TXT” using a GnomeEditor. That will do the trick, I might just do that myself for redux sometime. Thanks anyways.

von Manteuffel: Any other info on the HRE?


Has anyone else found some useful or interesting Intel on redux? If you have, feel free to share it with the rest of us.

- Cheers

[Baron von Manteuffel]

Hi, I have not found anything else yet with the Germans. I did fight a battle in Franconia against the Norse. They attacked with a large army of Norse Bodyguard units. It seems that the AI prefers to recruit nothing but the Bodyguard units for the Norse (about 90%). While they are very powerful against other infantry, I was easily able to get Imperial Knights in their rear and flank. My infantry battleline though mauled, held long enough for my Imperial knight counterattack. The Norse King fled, and their whole army desintegrated. The point is though they are very powerful, they are not balanced. After looking at the Norse some more, I believe the Bodyguard indulgence is just caused by a lot of heirs and after a King dies, ex-heirs.

[Axalon]

Hi again von Manteuffel,

This post is based on your unedited post, but I think it might be interesting anyhow so I post it as it was, even though you clearly got new info on the matter. Regarding the heirs and such, you are probably right.
---

I do appreciate your sincerity in the matter. However, I don’t recognize the scenario you’re painting here, even thou it is interesting. And because of that I will stand my ground on this one until it can be further verified that this scenario is indeed a regular occurrence in redux.

Now, what you are describing sounds to me like one of the text-book examples on how to deal with those lethal Vikings (especially those Norse Bodyguards which are among the meanest of them all). You applied cavalry to infantry (in the flanks and in the rear?) and if there was no spears around I think you got a pretty accurate conclusion of that particular battle (given the fact that you were also facing Vikings without any spears). Add to that; you also got a healthy taste of what kind of loses you’ll have if you deploy infantry against the Norse. Infantry is their specialty, but on the other hand they have scarce options in other arms, making them vulnerable to “high-tech” factions like the HRE for instance. The HRE and “Italy” has plenty of various specialist to draw from (with the right installations in place of course) which makes them quite formidable to face if a few of these units are present in an army and you got all the “wrong” troops. Trying to improve “your” tan in front of some Frankish formation of crossbowmen will, and should, end in utter doom for the poor dumb bastard that tries it! I am pretty sure that you agree with here.

In my experience the Norse usually throws in a few spear and cavalry units and some archers as well if they got it available in their armies. Thus usually having more balanced armies than the one you describe. For some reason the AI, thou a coward, thought it had good chances of defeating you in this case and went to the attack accordingly (Franconia being prosperous province and all). You had the right and enough tactical resources available in Franconia to defend it, and triumphed because of that (probably along with some able generalship involved as well).

What I suspect happened in this particular case, thou I can only speculate because I have to scarce info here, is that your scenario happened fairly early in your campaign and the reason for the Norse “stubborn” recruitment of Norse Bodyguards could be linked to the fact that they may not have had the time yet to develop enough buildings to commission cavalry or archers and such. Because they usually build such troops if they can, to a far greater extent than they build Norse Bodyguards. All this based on the experience I have had with the Norse so far.

However, if your claims turn out to be correct and accurate for longer periods in the redux-SPC, I will do something about it, rest assured about that. Now, I have few ideas on how to counter this problem, if it really is a problem. But, until I get it verified that it really is I will leave things as they are for now. None the less, carry on and keep the good stuff coming! And do hold on to that candor!


(As stated earlier you clearly got new info here so my comments are a bit dated above.)

- Cheers

[western]

Axalon

Is there a reason why tradeships and trade galleys have identical stats but different costs? A number of factions have access to both - why ever build the more expensive?

[Axalon]

Glad to hear from you, Western! Now, your questions are both interesting and valid I think (you finding these things a bit odd it’s not that surprising to me, I would probably react in the same way).


First question; the reason for the ”trade galley” being a bit more expensive than the “tradeship” are based on the assumption that the slaves/prisoners required to operate it properly cost some as well. That kind of reasoning goes for all the galleys in redux. Hence it is a bit more costly to buy/build galleys (it is basically applied to support costs as well, hence tradegalleys are more expensive in every sense).

Second question; why on earth would I ever want to build something that I can get cheaper and still get the exact same quality anyways? Well, the short answer to that is; no you don’t, pure and simple. But the AI for some reason thinks its fun to do so, why? The most likely explanation for that is probably linked with the AI-build values in CRUSADERS_UNIT_PROD11.TXT and personally I think it adds little colour to the game. As in, all the ships on the stratmap are not the same kind everywhere, kind of thing. Now, before any hasty conclusions are made here, we need also to have a closer look on the answers to the next question.

Third question; why are the stats identical? The reason for that can be traced back to a flaw in the original MTW. I my experience, half of the boat stats are almost 100% cosmetic and have, with the exceptions of range and speed, no traceable effect in the game at all (for each shiptype at least, strength is similar to the “men”-value of tac-units. As in a value of “60” results in 60 men in that unit by default). Before I realized all that I did have an intricate system planned for all the ships in redux. However, when I finally found out, beyond any doubt, that the attack and defence values did not have any noticeable effect the game, what so ever, I decided to give them some “reasonable” standard values to camouflage the flaw in MTW (and redux along with it). This is hard coded stuff and I can’t do anything about it, if I could I would.

What I’m trying to say here is that you could have the value of “87” on defence and “24” on attack and it still would not matter in the game (if you or anybody else considers it worthwhile to prove me wrong, by all means do so. I would actually consider that a major breakthrough for the game and do something about it, that’s for sure). “Your supership” would most likely just get sunk anyways, sooner or later (and probably by a ship with the values of 2 or 4 or something). I tried stuff like that when still thought it there was any point in doing so, desperately trying to make the ships different from each other. As it is, the sad truth is that it does not matter, the only reason for buying a “royal warship” is that it cooler then the plain ”warship” and so on (not counting range differences here). Speed-values have a small impact on the game, but “Range” actually is the only value that really has a direct effect in redux and original MTW. Because of all this there really is no point in giving the various ships different values since they actually won’t matter much anyway. But for forget all that when your plying, because it would not be as much fun otherwise, would it?

The bottom line: when it comes to naval-power, the only thing that seems to count is quantity and “stars” basically all else have no or little effect in either redux or the original (sad but true, but it seems to be hard coded all of it).

Are there any other questions? (That offer is open to all by the way)



INTEL-REQUEST:
I am curious Western; how long have you progressed in turns with the Byz so far? How many provinces do you got? How does a typical “Western”-Byz army look like? What are you favourite units? Why? Which units do you especially hate to face etc. Why? Give me some redux-Intel here! That goes for you too von Manteuffel! That offer is also open to all by the way. Come on guys; don’t keep me in the dark here im curious! Hehe!


BUGHUNT: I you found something that you are anyway uncertain of, whether it “qualifies” or not, as a bug do post it here and I will see to it that it gets the proper treatment. If it is a valid bug (or error) I will “move it” to the “debug area” and announce the “kill”/credit confirmation. (However, if you do feel certain on your bug/error; proceed directly to the “debug area”. Oh yes, the debug thread is for MTW-VI/V.2.01 only. Any MTW-V1.1 errors and bugs; right here is the best place to post 'em.)


- Cheers

[Axalon]

Hi Wes, all that stuff is well worth discussing further and I will gladly do so, but I would like to request that we put it on hold for a short while. I really need your Intel on the Byzantine tac-unit situation (especially) and such stuff (and I know that you played the Byz so you should have an opinion by now). It would sharpen my perspective so to speak, is this ok for you?

If it is; just type “got it” below here, and you can post your Intel later (but I would prefer sooner hehe! ). Cause I would like to handle all the stuff by you and the baron at full capacity. If its not type ; “no can do”…. (Have some mercy on me man, Hehe!)

Cheers Man

[western]

Got it - intel later