MTW-Redux Beta Released!

**Raz** · 09-02-2008, 15:10

Ok, I've only just recently been able to download and install Redux (as well as the patches for the VI version). Anyway, I only had time to mess about in the campaign, from what little I saw I found it to be terrific. The campaign map and the completely new unit rosters are quite interesting.

One thing though, I thought I'd take the time to look through all the units, I typed in badgerbunny, and out popped: The Wrath of God, Death for Hire, Mr Warhammer, Mystic Knight and a few others who's names escape me. I found their description hilarious! I won't be using them of course, but I can see I'll be enjoying Redux for a while to come.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**Axalon** · 09-04-2008, 04:14

...Guilty as charged, Raz!

(Thanks for the praise by the way)

I simply could not resist the temptation of putting in some fun and stupid stuff in redux. I was actually wondering when this might come up. I always knew that it would happen sooner or later and it turned out to be you who first posted it in. As for "the magic units", here is the “highly classified” truth of behind them:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

I can’t remember if I put in more obviously stupid and silly troops in there, but I don’t think so. All of these “spaced out” units have of course ridiculous stats and should not be regarded seriously in any way. They are there because I always felt that most real games always have some fun and stupid stuff hidden within them. In MTW however there never was (if there are, I've missed it), so I decided to remedy that once and for all in redux (the cheaters must have their fun as well). Publicly, I will of course deny all of this; “wrath of what???!! Really….”

- Cheers

**Baron von Manteuffel** · 09-05-2008, 03:28

Has anyone successfully recruited a Norse Mercenary unit in their Byzantine campaign? I believe they're supposed to randomly appear in Constantinople, but I never see them.

**Axalon** · 09-05-2008, 11:09

Hi good baron, (The “clone-bug” has had my attention for a few days now)

Regarding the Norse Mercenary unit then; well I got them at least (Byzantines, turn 729). Technically they are available in Constantinople; I know that you can read a GnomeEditor just as well as I can. Have you played the Byzantines for a longer period (or have you captured Constantinople) and the Norse mercenaries have still not showed up? The safest way to attract them to Constantinople is to build a lot of high-end Taverns, Brothels and Merchant Buildings along with an Inn of course (since all of these helps to attract mercenaries in redux).

The buildings that have an opposite impact on mercenaries are Admiralty, Chancellery, Marshals-, Captains-, Champions-, Constables-, Order- and Royal Palace and also the military academy has a particularly big negative impact. Castle-size can also have an impact on mercenaries. All the exact stats are in the “CRUSADER_BUILD_PROD13.TXT”. Perhaps you just have too much of those negative-impact buildings in Constantinople? (Perhaps I might need to do some further adjustments on those values for the coming “official” upgrade-pack).

I repeat von Manteuffels question: has anyone else had any luck on hiring them?

- Cheers

**Axalon** · 09-06-2008, 22:33

Moving on then….

Now, “for the greater good of redux” (which has a nice and deliciously dubious ring to it) I never had the proper chance to respond to Westerns comments on the Byzantines in post: 59 and the various issues regarding them so I do that now....

Byzantium Alterations : (last chance to influence me guys)
These are the plans I made for the Byzantines so far. This is in many ways influenced by the input and Intel posted in from both of you Western and von Manteuffel, regarding the Byzantines. Which have turned out to be a bit semi-problematic faction to deal with…. - Wes and Baron now is the time to speak up, before I carve this in stone. The changes then:

Campaign Difficulty level: upgrade to “Hard” (currently “Normal”)
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Byzantine Infantry: (all regions)
New unit: 1050fl. (Including the faction discount bonus. Same tech requirements)
Support/turn: 100
Other: +1 Morale

The Byzantines must have some good unit available regardless wherever they might be. Otherwise they would be too unbalanced compared to other factions. If the Byzantines can pay, they can have ‘em! Having a few of these running around should really make an impact on the coffers (it is at least supposed to do so).
---

Byzantine Lancers: (all regions)
New unit: 1350fl. (Including the faction discount bonus.)
Support/turn:150
Other: +1 Morale

Recruiting these guys is hard enough as is. Regionizing them will unbalance the Byzantines compared to Catholic/other factions.
---

Byzantine Cavalry: (regionized to: Greece, Bulgaria, Constantinople, Nicaea, Trebizond, Anatolia, and Rum, Georgia)
New unit: 1800fl. (Including the faction discount bonus)
Support/turn: 200
Other: -
---

Byzantine Cataphracts: (regionized to: Greece, Bulgaria, Constantinople, Nicaea, Trebizond, Anatolia, and Rum, Georgia)
New unit: 260fl. (Including the faction discount bonus. 10 men)
Support/turn: 25
Other: +1 Attack
---

“New” Light Militia: (all regions)
New unit: 100fl. (40men)
Support/turn: 5
Other: -

I hope this little addition will end up being a good thing. Wes I would be particularly interested in Intel regarding these guys if you find anything worth while to report in (that goes for you as well Baron)…. And, yes these guys really are worthless soldiers.
---

Optional Mission/Experiment: 2A”

Manteuffel and Western, since I already know that you guys have the know-how to do this without any problems this optional mission is especially for you guys (its nothing fancy but I don’t want to write any guides for it). Download and install the files below and put them where they belong in your redux. Don’t forget to backup your regular CRUSADERS_UNIT_PROD11.TXT-file! Play as Byzantines on expert (with the experimental files, campaign experiment 2a) for 20-25 turns, do it at least twice (I guess you could do it all in 1-2hrs). Report back here with your findings and impressions of such circumstances. Please play it to 100% of your abilities! Fast responses are preferred, as usual, and good luck!

I will remove the link and “destroy” the files within 48hrs since this is not supposed to be a standing gig possibly even sooner if both of you guys have successfully reported in before that. EDIT: I have removed the experimental stuff now....

(Anybody else is of course welcome to participate in this little mission/experiment as well but, I will not offer any support what so ever for it, none at all. So, if you are in any way uncertain of how to do this, don’t do it! For your own sake….)

Link to “Experiment 2A-files”:
That link self-destructed about 15 seconds ago….

Cheers guys

**Baron von Manteuffel** · 09-07-2008, 07:20

Hi, I'm a slow builder and so I played for 48 turns. Usually I play on the normal level, but on the expert level I really didn't notice a huge difference except for the starting florins. The militia unit would be a nice cheap unit if you needed it, I guess, but I never recruited any. I go for quality over quantity. I dissagree with the Campaign Difficulty level: "hard" as I found it fairly "Normal". I had a lot of mercenaries I could recruit if I had wanted to in Constantinople, unfortunately never a Norse Mercenary

. Anyway, overall it is a fun campaign. My opinion of mods in general is that "fun should always outweigh realism". I believe you've already stated that this mod was something you put together the way you like it, and that you weren't really striving for realism. I feel you should stay on that path. An occaisional unit update

or whatever you see fit would be cool. Thank you for sharing this mod with the public.

**western** · 09-07-2008, 08:05

OK Axalon. Because I'm an early riser, here's my feedback from 2 games as the Byz on expert using the experimental files (1 for 30 turns, the second for 25).

First, everything stable as always.

Changes slow down expansion, but not dramatically. First time I went by land and had all of Asia Minor, the Balkans (less Croatia) and Moldavia by the end, with a healthy income surplus rolling in. Second time I started with the islands and by the end had Crete, Rhodes, Cyprus, Asia Minor and Bulg.

What the changes do is drive me towards a much greater reliance on mercs and peasants (as garrisons). The first is good. Don't like the second though - peasants are an ahistorical MTW invented unit. I'd prefer that they were not available to recruit and I had to rely on militia garrisons. But that may be too big a change for others.

As the game played on - and I started to come up against factions and I had more money, I would have been using my core Byz troops more to give some backbone to my armies - but always very aware of the cost (with upkeep more significant than purchase price).

So I think the changes are good - but militia are a bit irrelevant as long as I can spam out 100 peasants at need.

By the way, I was on constant lookout for Mercs and - to answer an earlier question - the Norse mercs never showed in Const.

**Axalon** · 09-07-2008, 13:36

Ok guys, (again thanks for the praise Manteuffel, it always feels good to be appreciated for what you do)

Many thanks for the fast replies; it makes things easier for me to work faster. Now neither of your “reports” indicated that you had any significant problems playing with these settings. Hence I am inclined to rule to Manteuffels favour, as in the “Normal” campaign difficulty level stays. Wes, you said yourself that you had florins to spare in spite of these settings and that have convinced me that a change to “Hard” campaign difficulty is not justified.

Western your point regarding the peasants is duly noted and the peasant availability goes out the window (just like the Moors, cause they don’t have any peasants available either. In that way I can force the AI to build some more serious units instead). I will lock them out for the Byzantines (I never liked the peasants anyway, he he!). The Cataphracts stay on 10 men since with these newer settings the Byzantines must have some option of raising “tac”-units that don’t cost a small fortune. Basically it’s a balance thing and it’s more or less about to be carved in stone already. It’s good to know that you finally started to be more sensitive to support costs while playing as the Byzantines, because this was the basic plan from day 1. Compared to other factions Byzantine support costs are now in a league of their own, but since I wanted a different feeling and experience while playing as the Byzantines I am willing to accept that. I have always felt that in almost all other cases that support cost is not, and should not be, the big issue. Initial training and equipment are supposed to be that.

Anyways, I think that redux is finally getting close with the Byzantines regarding my different take on them. Playing different factions should preferably offer a different experiences, not just in the obvious way of another strategically different starting positions and the various special units (which is great), but I prefer it also on a deeper level as well and especially if different cultures are involved. If that don’t happen I personally feel that the reasons to have another faction available for the player are limited.

Regarding the Norse mercenaries:
-------------------------------
Now, back to our dear little mead drinking Norse mercenaries again; it appears to me that I need to recalibrate the “mercenary magnetism”-values to sort things out properly. I will do so, if not sooner, at least to the release of the “official” VI-upgrade. It should not be half-impossible to recruit these guys otherwise the whole god **** point is lost by having them available in Constantinople. So, I will look this over again.

MISSION DEBRIEFING: case “2a”
-------------------------------
It seems that “experiment 2a” fared better than the last one. Due to your fast responses I can get things done faster and for that I am grateful to you guys. Again that also includes your willingness to help me out and keep my perspectives strait and sharp, which is always a good thing. Again, many thanks for your (fast) help and useful Intel!

- Cheers
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(BTW: Wes, you graciously put your earlier stuff on hold for me. Now, if there still is anything of that stuff you still want me to comment on (in case of I might have forgotten something) please give me a reminder me by posting them in again. /cheers)