Now, as I already said to Baron von Manteuffel, for the time being I’m not that interested in putting in some new additional troops in redux (of any kind, short of snarling dragons and sexy amazons, becuse that would be really fun) and all your pointers here are fine and ok. To me it sounds like you should do the “Islamic troop expansion” for redux since you clearly know more about that stuff then I do anyhow so why don’t you? I am all for it and this is my little counter-suggestion to your suggestion he he! My guess is that there is always someone out there that shares your particular interest in Islamic troops and also plays redux. You got 12 available and vacant slots for tactical units just waiting to be filled with whatever content you so fit, so that sounds to me like a good place to start (if you don’t know how to, there are plenty of guides on the subject right here at here at the .Org). Use the design of redux!
I have already paved the way and made room for you and everybody else to make it easier to put in your/their favourite special units in there! Because I know that even if I had managed to put all those units that you particularly like there would always be someone else with other preferences and thus wanted me to put in some other special units instead. And redux (and original MTW as well for that matter) can only hold so much troops, and as always, the lines have to be drawn somewhere. It is because of all that I have intentionally designed redux to be more flexible and fairly adaptable in order to better comply with each personal preference (as in, among other things, having 12 vacant unit slots available for you and everybody else). Because that is the only solution that makes everybody happy and I have recognized that fact in my design.
“...why not just reduce the number of their starting provinces?“
This is just an excellent idea and I will probably just do that in the future on the v.1.1 version of redux. I have been so busy working on VI-things that I so far have not had the time to think about these things. With your little idea here I might not have to think much about it either (at least on that matter, which would be real nice!). I guess that MALTA is the most likely and first target for such a move. It is a simple, yet very good idea, and it has gone straight to the “to do” list!
“Would I be wrong in thinking that most of your effort has gone into the European (esp Norse) aspects?“
Well, a little bit of both I guess; half-right or half-wrong, pic one.... He he! There is some substance in your assumption however, because most work has been directed towards the Catholic factions in redux. Personally I don’t find this to be that surprising either. After all, most factions in redux are Catholic (14 out of 18 to be exact) so focusing on them seemed to be the natural move for me (the circumstances are similar in the original as you well know).
Regarding the Norse interest then; as far as tech-tree goes, yes I have given the Norse and Lithuanians some special interest because I deemed the “pagan”-culture to be badly neglected in the original games (both in VI and MTW). I always wanted the pagan culture to be far more than it ever was (and can be with the existing elements) in the original game and with the redux design I dare to say that I have changed all that. To me, paganism is an enormous concept that is far too diverse and interesting to be so blatantly ignored the way it was in the original games. Actually it’s too big of a concept to be healthy for it self, but all that is another story for another place. In redux I have tried to restrict it to the Norse and Lithuanian mythology and all research I did has been limited to that basically. This of course is just puny parts of the concept of paganism but the lines have to be drawn somewhere.
Since I am a Norseman myself, Vikings is close to home and I thought that they deserved a better treatment then they have had before in MTW. As far as Norse units go; no I can’t say that I given the Norse a special attention or treatment. They have the similar design guidelines as any other faction. The only thing I have done on them was to emphasize their characteristics for which they are world-famous for. No fear of death, berserkers, excellent fighters and seafarers and that sort of thing. I have reflected some of these “Norse” traits in the redux design because I think it would be cool and at the same time offer some diversity to the game. In a practical and technical sense this means that they have a semi-ridiculous moral bonuses and have access to first class, but numerically limited, infantry formations and at the same time their cavalry is cut down to measly 4 units and so on. As with all factions in redux, I have tried to create different profiles on each faction that at the same time felt right for me. And this is especially true if different cultures are involved. The culture in the Apennine peninsula is different than the one found in Frankish Western Europe or the Iberian Peninsula and so on. Even if all are essentially Catholic areas (again, yes there are exceptions). And this is to some extent reflected in the redux design, as in different troops and tech-trees, being many times regionized or restricted to special factions etc.
“I think you've missed some great potential for rich and interesting troop choices by going with a plain "Moorish/Saracen x", "Desert x", etc. “
Yeah, you might be right. However, if you look closely this don’t differ much from any other of the factions. Most factions are built up upon such symbolic categorizations and standards. The Islamic factions, to my mind, are not in anyway that different from other factions as far as name construction goes; Slavic Warriors, Slavic Bowmen and Slavic Knights? Or how about Frankish Spearmen, Frankish Infantry and Frankish Knights? To me it sounds like they follow the similar guidelines as Moorish Raiders, Moorish Warriors or Moorish Bodyguards? Or is it just me?
Yes, it might sound generic to someone that has particular knowledge or interest of let’s say Spanish Conquistadors and the “Reconquista” or anything else, but it works and it does comply with the fact that the room for units in MTW are limited. In order to create a workable and meaningful tactical profile for each faction in the game (because I personally value that higher than sheer quantity of available troops) I simply can’t just focus on one particular culture and related factions. This is one of the “hard” practical reasons for this reality.
Other practical reasons are the raw and time-consuming GFX-work involved for each unit, which for me at least must have a satisfactory standard compared with other material in the game; it must blend in and go together. After that there is the pure unit-design part of stats and how the unit functions and works compared to other troops and of course the dreary practical coding of the unit in question etc. 1 unit, no problem, 10 units, problems dead ahead basically, 100 units just your average nightmare. I have done some 200+ of these (and discarded plenty of them for various reasons), so I do have some experience of what I am talking about here. Maybe I’m just lazy, but after a while (umm let’s say 40 unit rev-pics/40 unit icons/40 info-bifs speaking from a strictly GFX view here) the fun of doing them have kind of disappeared (at least for me)....
There are other more “softer” reasons as well, by using symbolic names the game avoids to get entangled in special terms like “Khataphraktoi” or anything like that (which by the way is just begging to be spelled wrong). All these symbolic classifications work and are easy to understand, and they can cover much ground since they are above all symbolical and are intended to function on an associational level.
Another advantageous thing with symbolical names is that it does not require an encyclopaedia close by to understand what the hell the troops are all about, thus avoiding all problems of let’s say; “Szezkelly” (I spelled that wrong didn’t I, there you go!), because that problem is eliminated altogether with easy understandable and symbolical names (and the encyclopaedia can peacefully continue to collect dust instead).
“...you could have had a range of Berber soldiers (light cavalry, javelins, etc); saqaliba regiments (the armies made up of imported slavic slaves); various arab infantry and cavalry units. Then you could have made it really, really interesting with Murabitin elites - a range of javelin infantry, camels, and shock infantry - famous for charging into battle with their faces veiled and with terrifying drum beats. They used flags and drums to transmit orders in battle as well, making them far more disciplined than the other military forces in Spain. They would be regionized to the desert provinces. That would be much more interesting than the silly "ghazi" idea of the MTW creators.”
Now, if I read you correctly it seems to me that most of those troops that you are talking about are already more or less (or could be regarded as) covered within the ruling and strict possibilities of MTW. As in the available bif-plates, stat-system, limited framework of the program, audio and graphical capabilities and so on. And with the already existing units within redux.
“Berber soldiers”
These are more or less covered with the various desert formations (not the right names of course, but in function and style)
“Saqaliba regiments”
I get the feeling that this is more or less covered by “Slave Militias”.
“...various arab infantry and cavalry units.”
Yes I could, but again there is no room for that stuff and it is essentially covered by Saracen and Moorish formations. The Islamic factions already have more troops allocated to them than there ever was in any original game, the Moors alone have 10 more units than found in the original (at least in redux MP). The lines have to be drawn somewhere and they happened to end up the way they did.
“Murabitin elites”
Well redux got the Moorish “Black Guard”; perhaps those could fill that void for you? They are pretty “elitish” and to me it sounds that they do essentially fulfil that roll you are talking about. Again not the exact and right name perhaps....
Now, I am no specialist on these things and it might sound stupid to you, but you are stuck with silly, ignorant me here, and that’s just the way it is.... He he! My point being twofold:
Firstly, everything usually has more than one single name, and depending on whom you are talking too, each name is more correct and understandable or accurate than the other. Let me give you simple example here: It is called “Skane” by those of us who live here! Not “Scania”! Skane is a more correct term for those who might live there and perhaps to other people from Scandinavia but for almost everybody else it is basically “Marsian” and they don’t have clue what it means or signifies. With “Scania” however chances for recognition improves drastically. If you have ever looked at a MTW-XL map you might perhaps know were that region roughly is, but if you don’t my guess is that you don’t have a clue were that is, and if you do, I would say that you are an exception. This of course applies to all things and the various “spaced out”/”specialist” troop names in MTW are no exception. I’ve tried to keep it simple so at least I can play the game and skip the encyclopaedia part. If I don’t use the exact specialist term so be it. I can live with that.
Secondly, there is another thing that I personally consider to be paramount. This is the fact that most troops have a meaning and actually plays a part in the over all unit grid of redux. Basically every unit has some purpose and function and they are balanced with all other units and profiles in the redux grid to a satisfactory degree. And this is especially true for playable factions in redux. I know this, since I have thoroughly tested it with friends of mine, doing some redux MP together. We have battled things out a few hundred times so this is fairly certain (apart from my own personal tests which probably are a few thousands). Now, the Moorish troop’s works and they are different and they do have a different style, compared with troops from other cultures and that’s way I want it to be. Because I have the notion that playing different factions should offer different experiences if possible, beyond the obvious geo-strategical differences and available unit arsenals. The troop’s themselves should feel different, the way and how they fight should be different. If all that happens I am happy, because that’s just the way I want it....
Redux & The Moorish Profile:
The Moors as any other faction have limits and strengths. To me, cavalry and quantity are strong points for the Moors. Specialized infantry is one the weaker aspects. This together begins to draw a “profile” on that faction. Add to that a special tech-tree and the profile gets more explicit, then you have the aspect geography and regions and the profile evolves even further. This is the case for every faction in redux, to a more or less explicit degree depending on these parameters and others as well. Wealth is another aspect for instance. And were that wealth is found, as in which region you can find riches to commission expensive troops surely have an impact in the game. Regional development is another and the list can probably be expanded further.
The existing troops in redux works together in creating a diversity in the game yet they still balances each other out fairly well. Considering all the parameters involved here. To me there is no or little meaning of putting in new troops for the sake of it, because if those troops don’t have any real and valid function in the game, why are they there? There are of course a few exceptions, but there always are. My point being; any fool can fill the troop rooster to the max with let’s say “peasant Xs” and call them “Heavy Whateverings”. That’s not the trick, it is to give them purpose and diversity between them and thus strengthening the game and the experience of it as a whole, that’s the trick. That is at least the way I see it. Maybe you agree with me on this? It has definitely been my goal for redux at any rate.
Re: MTW-Redux 1.0 Released!
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Re: MTW-Redux 1.0 Released!
Apparently they're just for custom battles??? The Hospitallers weren't founded untill the First Crusade in 1099, but if the Venetians have access to them in 700 AD, you may as well give them to the Lombards as a prelude to the Genoese having them. 
Favorite faction, all 
. No, probably England for the Longbows, and it's an easy home base to defend. I like France for all the heavy royal units and Templars. I've tried all except: the Saracens, Russians, Portuguese, Papacy, and Lithuanians..."
Yep Zasz, thats basically the plan here, and you feeling like a king is a plus! He he! Do stick around here and post in additional questions and comments if you have any. Happy fighting!.jpg "Dodge_272's Avatar")
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