MTW-Redux Beta Released!

[daigaku]

Hi, friends of the once-and-forever game,
@Axalon

First, thanks for your kind words. A force of nature I wouldn´d call myself, but a stubborn and still unexhausted MTW-and-nearly-nothing-else player? That would fit ;-))

About:Statistics

My, my - 19000+ views, 1300 downloads - and sooo few posts only; sure a hard bread to chew on. WHAT are you all doing out there? Playing so much, there isn´t even time for posting? Come on, please!!

About: 1004-VIe/Russian/Casual(because first try of 1004 AND Russians in Redux):

Really great and balanced roster; I allowed myself to activate the Khanate Horse Archers for all factions in Khazar, not only rebels - otherwise, Khazar would be too much of a waste with all it´s giving. More about campaign in "battle and tactics".

One thing about the new map wasn´t really to my taste, but I left it as it was: Breaking the English Channel into two pieces. Too good an opportunity to block entirely with two regions building ships alternately. As you know, out of necessity I´m a moneymaker in the game, and this means 1st to loose some granted income and 2nd one has to build more ships to "go the long way ´round", especially in the beginning.
The ship stuff - don´t know if I go d´accord there; it works so far that i didn´t have to blow thousand of enemy ships to the ocean´s ground, but mere hundreds. The upkeep is, nevertheless, chewing holes into the purse (as always going for naval superiority).

@All:

Please, guys and gals out there playing Redux, respond a bit to this tremendous piece of work with a few words. Of praise, of critics, of questions, of ideas for changes, it doesn´t matter. Since I came back after an absence of about 10 months (trying to get into another game and gave it up) there were around only a handful of posters, but 300 downloads of 1004. Nothing to tell? Nothing to share? It´s hard to believe, so please, write a few words and keep this place a bit busy.

greetings to everybody,
daigaku

[Axalon]

About: Statistics

Yup, I always found all that strange ever since Redux started having that kind of statistics – which it have had for quite some time. I have certainly tried to make people post here but with little success…

Really great and balanced roster; I allowed myself to activate the Khanate Horse Archers for all factions in Khazar, not only rebels - otherwise, Khazar would be too much of a waste with all it´s giving. More about campaign in "battle and tactics".

I generally think one should at least try out the default designs on units first before one starts change/altering anything like that – of course, it’s your call obviously. Maybe it’s just me and what I would do...

One thing about the new map wasn´t really to my taste, but I left it as it was: Breaking the English Channel into two pieces. Too good an opportunity to block entirely with two regions building ships alternately. As you know, out of necessity I´m a moneymaker in the game, and this means 1st to loose some granted income and 2nd one has to build more ships to "go the long way ´round", especially in the beginning.

Well, I guess it is unavoidable that we eventually find something to seemingly disagree upon. I split the English Channel as I think it serves the overall game in a good way. If the new circumstances don’t work out for you, then you will have to adapt or perish – and I’m pretty sure even you can manage to adapt just fine (even if reluctantly). This despite your specific playing-style. The principle here is that it is supposed to be some sort of a game, meaning the outcome and survival of your faction - including England - should be uncertain and fought for somehow, not the other way around. There should be some challenges somehow. This change serves that end, or so I believe…

The ship stuff - don´t know if I go d´accord there; it works so far that i didn´t have to blow thousand of enemy ships to the ocean´s ground, but mere hundreds. The upkeep is, nevertheless, chewing holes into the purse (as always going for naval superiority).

Previously, players were able to routinely achieve naval significance or even superiority, too easily - evidently. This due to my (previous) unsuccessful designs on ships. I have now tried to remedy that and as a result players will have to work and pay for it more to get there. That’s a good thing, Dai – not the other way around… If you want easy - raw MTW stands ready to serve, and it won’t get much easier then that in MTW. Redux is a poor choice for “cakewalk”-play.

Redux is supposed to be tough on "standard” and “veteran”-difficulty at least, playing the regular factions - as is representative for how Redux was actually intended and designed to be played. Redux was never intended to cater greenhorn-, casual- and average players or some half-assed posers. There are already plenty of stuff done for MTW that caters to that crowd. If such people still want to play Redux - excellent, fine and OK by me - but it was/is originally designed for veteran and skilled players in mind, and that shows all over in the game. In short, Redux is was clearly supposed to be tough - without being punishing - and deliver an interesting, uncertain and dramatic experience etc. etc.

Please, guys and gals out there playing Redux, respond a bit to this tremendous piece of work with a few words. Of praise, of critics, of questions, of ideas for changes, it doesn´t matter.

Agreed...

- A

[daigaku]

Hi @Axalon,

I have certainly tried to make people post here but with little success…

Really a pity, that. I imagine there is so much to say/write about the experience with Redux that it strikes me as really weird there is so little traffic here. The other side: I think, most people playing it are quite some individualists (just like you yourself, for example ;-)) and so care more about their own experience than about sharing it. Understandable, but a pity anyway.

one should at least try out the default designs

Well, I did for the first 100 years, but sorry, I really disliked the idea of having this great province and not being able to do too much with it. I even hardly use those guys (they´re not too good a bang for the buck), but wanted to be able to recruit something special in this part of the world.

to adapt just fine (even if reluctantly)

Of course, Axalon. And momentarily, playing the Rus, it´s not really a pain in the ass. But I wonder how it will be playing English or Norse.

achieve naval significance or even superiority, too easily

Sure I will stick to this strategy, no matter what the cost. For my gameplay it is vital to have blocked direct enemy access to my provinces - can´t have 15000 Saracenes or Byz or French standing on my doorstep in Norway, me having a garrison of 700 men ;-)) Things like that I let happen when the game was published - and learned fast....

Redux is supposed to be tough on "standard” and “veteran”-difficulty at least

Be assured, it is. Parallel to my current Russian campaign I started another Norse/veteran in 1003, having a hell of a time - and fun clearing the English out of their islands (good luck there are forests in GB as well ;-)) And Lithuanian Cavalry does wonders against Longbow units...

but it was/is originally designed for veteran and skilled players

;-) ...no problem about that, I´d say - and, again, a big THANKS (yes, this is meant shouting) for that, dear Axalon.

greetings from rainy Blackforest, daigaku

[Axalon]

Hello again all, I found some stuff that I thought was interesting enough to share here, hopefully people visiting here will agree...

Below are some old pics, the results of a test/experiment I did in Jan 2013 as to evaluate Redux and its overall challenge-levels. The experiment (or test) was essentially: “can one achieve victory in raw MTW within 100 turns? Even if the difficulty is maxed out? If not, how close can one get then? Can one do it with Redux? How will raw MTW compare to Redux in this regard? What are the actual differences between the two in this context? What conclusions can be drawn from the results?” etc. etc. I also tried XL for additional and broader reference (while I never came around to do a Redux-campaign at that point in time. I did it later on however). These were the combined results….




Raw MTW, playing as Spain (a hard faction), Early-era, expert level, default unit-size... Full throttle enabled... 80 turns in (1167 AD), I was offered victory. I was amazed at the result as I did not expect it to be that easy, as things had actually turned out. Thinking back, I remember I was essentially swimming in florins all the time, no matter what I did. I was constantly at war ever since turn 5 or 6. I never ever used any mercenaries or crap troops like peasants for garrisoning, I never built any save, 2-3 units of spearmen at start up - I had little choice, no other troops were available at that point. Once I could build feudal men at arms, I used little else for infantry and my armies.



Same Spanish campaign in raw MTW... 94 turns in (1181 AD), I was offered total victory. I was surprised at the speed it all have happened, some 40(!) provinces conquered in just 14 turns... All this while the famous "rebel-bug" was in full swing (causing some minor problems, but it was never much beyond that, due to the overly effective watchtowers and some additional spies)...



MTW-XL 3.0, playing as Armenians (a hard faction), Early-era, expert level, default unit-size... Full throttle enabled... 96 turns in (1176 AD), I was offered (minor) victory. I did not bother pursuing a total victory after that as I already had the info I was looking for. Its possible that I could have shaven off some few turns, if I had been more experienced with both XL and the Armenians... All I remember is that I killed the Turks first and then killed the Egyptians while at war with Byzantium too. The Turks and Egyptians were a joke in regards to troops once I could get my hands on some functional cavalry, then it was all over... After Constantinople every faction was fair game, as I was done playing nice and went berserk across XL-Europe.

Raw MTW was slightly easier then XL. I had little problems with cash, troops, order, rebels and buildings in neither - I could build whatever I wanted without any fuss or protest anywhere, this at any given time - although it certainly took time to build stuff. Building-time, more then anything was the greatest obstacle in these two campaigns. Ships take like forever to build, and so I basically ignored a building a big fleet and do trade - I had no time for it (in this context), nor did I seriously need it. AI-factions was typically no threat on, or from, the seas anyways. I also remember that I was in constant war, all the time, with two or more factions as a rule. At first I started them, later it was the AI all the way... I never made peace or dishonoured an alliance, in either two campaigns.




MTW-Redux using a 1004-prototype (about 3 months later, Apr 2013)... Playing as Spain, veteran level, default unit-size... Full throttle enabled... 100 turns in (800 AD), I have managed to scrape together some 13 provinces, and securing the Iberian peninsula and a buffer zone in France and Morocco but little else (save Flanders!). This screen shows the northern borders into France... My armies are hardly spectacular nor superior to my foes (here or elsewhere). In fact the French armies are actually better then mine at this point and so my troops get slaughtered every time I actually try to attack French held territories... My troops are simply outclassed in terms of equipment to the Frankish knights. I managed to build my very first unit of royal spearmen which is probably the only thing that will break these well equipped Frankish knights in battle, since little else will (at least from Spain, save archers, of which I don't have enough to pull it off). In short, Spain's armies are still in internal disorder and in need of upgrades due to the massive pressure during the first 100 turns, especially from the Moors. Spain has little or no reserves, and its armies are still very much under construction to cover past losses. Plenty of cheap units still around as I basically could not afford quality units at the rate I had lost them, and I had to get new troops to survive...



Same Spanish campaign in Redux... The southern borders in Africa... Spain under my reign was hardly mighty, and it is first now slowly recovering from some 80+ turns of multiple wars (on several fronts), constant shortages, battles and rebellions. Spain was never strong enough to wipe out the Moors when it had the chance - not enough troops to do it. The economy has for the most part on the verge of collapse as it has been is overstretched by various demands, needs and plans. I had to fine-tune taxes many times just to maintain some internal order and avoid rebellions. I simply had no troops to deal with that too... I have been fighting for survival multiple times against the Moors, who damn near wiped me off the map - had it not been for a series of spectacular/fancy wins that ultimately saved Spain from annihilation. I mean, I could have lost the entire game some 5-6 times at least, had I lost any of those crucial battles. The initial Moorish onslaught was relentless and without mercy, I was fighting for survival. After some 100 turns of toil and serious struggle in Redux, what did I have to show for it all?

...Some 9,974 florins and 13 provinces - hard earned.

- A

[daigaku]

Hi @Axalon,

..."blitzing", were you?!? what you describe here is exactly why I love redux. Your playing style sure being totally different to mine, but what I see here is shouting for !;-) micromanagement;-)! of all sorts.
What is lowest stability? Income per year? Loyalty of generals? Of troops? Influence? Allies?
For a slow player like me, no way to do something like that. As a counterpart, I might post the slowest development in my current 1003VI/Norse/veteran campaign...

headshaking greetings, daigaku

[daigaku]

Hi @Axalon,

...as it seems to me, you´ve changed unit availability in 1004e-VI. Do I see this right?

If yes, is there any chance for a sort of tabella(?) about this? I see myself already again building structures to find out what´s possibly available (example: playing the English, ItalianNobles available in Sardinia).

greetings, daigaku