some historical game stuff and question of allying with infidels and archrival

[KingKnudthebloodthirsty]

If any of u remembr in an earlier thread of mine, in the assasins as target practise one, i said mongols were antimuslims. well its true that the later "civilized" mongols khanates converted to islam. but at the time of genghis and kublai khan, when the mongols r on their conquering rampage, i was right, they had animosity fr muslims. during the seventh crusade, many mongols were actually sympathetic to the crusader cause and therefore allied or at least pretty willingly submit to the mongols as vassals, most notably the principalitty of antioch, albeit one that ultimately failed to achieve its aims. though the alliance was poorly held and battles in syria against the mamluks were poorly coordinated between the allies, the number of attempts the mongols made to make a strong alliance showed how much the mongols were determined to destroy the muslim empire.


now to the questions about the alliances:
1. i saw in many games of venice and turks allying against their common foe, the byz. and i also know the spainish and the portugese sometimes allying with the moors. does this hurt one's standin w/ the pope?

2. In many games, including mine as france, the french and the english could easily ally. but they almost never ally in the middle ages except fr the tattered and fragile alliance in the crusades. maybe its my historical knowledge or something but how could these two rivals ally in the game? theyre shadow factions in the short camp .other rivals in the game cant ever do it that easily long or short

[Yaropolk]

Allying with muslims doesn't lower the pope-meter.

Historically Chingis Khan were very tolerant of the religious beliefs of his conquered subjects. He slaughtered cities that offered resistance but incorporated those that surrendered into his empire with very few strict rules - give him soldiers, give him money, and be loyal, or face eradication. He was well known for quckly learning from his enemies, and adapted siege technology for example from the Chinese and Muslims.

[Sheogorath]

Its my understanding that medieval politics was quite chaotic and fragmented. Parts of your 'state' could easily be allied with a nation you hated, while at the same time you could be temporarily allied against a common foe while, in fact, still fighting each other. In some areas (early Spain, for example) Christians and Muslims would ally against a common foe on occasion. El Cid actually fought for a Muslim lord originally, I think.

Anyway, it doesnt really matter. Being 'allied' with the AI essentially gives you priority for being attacked and not much else :p

[KingKnudthebloodthirsty]

yes, i know that the mongols were tolerant of religion in their conquered lands, but as they were conquering westward, they ran into the muslims in the 1250s. since the muslims were a major stumbiling block, theyre determined to rid the muslims and allied with the crusaders to destroy them, however ultimately achievely failure, with the mongol defeat in 1260 by egypt, serious halting mongol expansion.

btw, how could the english and french aly so easily. i thought shadow factons in the short campaign cant ally easily, even in the long camp.

[PBI]

I believe "shadow factions" actually only refers to the Roman rebel emergent factions in BI; AFAIK the concept is not used in M2TW. I understand it is a common misconception that it simply means two factions which are programmed to hate each other, or factions whose victory conditions include the other's defeat.

AFAIK any factions can ally with each other in M2TW, I believe the main thing meant to ensure that England and France go to war and do not ally is the fact that they share a land border (I think AI factions are reluctant to ally with people the share borders with).

[decimator22]

yes, i know that the mongols were tolerant of religion in their conquered lands, but as they were conquering westward, they ran into the muslims in the 1250s. since the muslims were a major stumbiling block, theyre determined to rid the muslims and allied with the crusaders to destroy them, however ultimately achievely failure, with the mongol defeat in 1260 by egypt, serious halting mongol expansion.

Well actually they didn't hate the muslims they just did what every other emipre would have done ally with someone and destroy the biggest threat for your expansion here being the Muslims. I read that most of the Muslim cities destryed by the mongols was because they "rebelled" not sending tribute to them so then the khans came from the steeps entered killed burned etc. Making As anyother Emipre would do to subjugate the population faster.

btw, how could the english and french aly so easily. i thought shadow factons in the short campaign cant ally easily, even in the long camp.

To my experience they will ally if they have a common fow or have no land border, If whichever factions attacks an other and has no land border the AI will automatically ask for peace even if it was the one that started the invasion. Try it yourself and offer ceasefire it will be very generous for according to the AI standards.

[Proserpine]

Well the Mongols destroyed the Muslim state of Khwarazm in Central Asia, but they didn't particularly hate Muslims, they hated all non-Mongols equally.

[KingKnudthebloodthirsty]

wat about caen and paris? in the start, england own caen and france own paris and they share a land border

[Marauder]

I'm playing an English campaign and had some initial problems with France. After I was a superpower and they only had 3 provinces left, they happily allied with me while I dealt with Denmark and Milan. So they might not like England, but they certainly knew when they were overpowered.

[kublikhan3]

In one game as Egypt, I had Abysmal relations with everyone, despicable reputation, was at war with several christian factions, and even called a Jihad down on Rome. The Papal States still asked to be my ally. I thought it would be funny so I agreed to the alliance. Big mistake. A few turns later, the Pope called a crusade against my capitol at Constantinople, and 8 different christian factions declare war on me. The Papal States were still allied to me though. The pope also seemed to time his crusade to coincide with a Mongol invasion of my lands That was one wacked out pope.

Check it out:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=76406