Poll: Should the Augustan Reforms be removed?

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

Yes.

I agree that Europe could still develop on her own without the Romans, following a different path. Still this is mostly conjecture, and it is granted that our present society as it developed and is now owes a lot to Rome in Classical Antiquity and their "civilizing" factor that allowed the spread of knowledge and forms well within the rest of Europe.

[antisocialmunky]

It owes its current make up to a lot of things. Though I do think you are right that now-a-days Rome is probably the most important one. However, I think the Rome's greatest contribution is inspiration to those who came after with the shadow of its greatness.

In a word Romanticism. :-p

[a completely inoffensive name]

Yes.

I agree that Europe could still develop on her own without the Romans, following a different path. Still this is mostly conjecture, and it is granted that our present society as it developed and is now owes a lot to Rome in Classical Antiquity and their "civilizing" factor that allowed the spread of knowledge and forms well within the rest of Europe.

How much though do we know that the Romans proliferated across Europe that were truly "Roman" inventions and were not just picked up from conquered, assimilated cultures. As an example, I have read many times, that the Romans picked up chain mail from the Gauls, even if the Romans were the ones who adapted the chain mail and brought it with them to other regions where other cultures adapted it and used it for centuries even after the Romans disappeared, should the glory go to the Romans for spreading the armor to those regions or to the Gauls for creating the armor in the first place.

I guess the thought I am trying to convey is that should we be admiring and praising those who make the inventions or those who promote/proliferate/establish/make well known such technology? I wish I could think this thought out more, but nevertheless reading what Basileos and antisocialmonkey posted made me want to type this out.

-ACIN (This might just be my first serious post! )

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

You could research for yourself.

Even though the Greeks and Celts have been using moderately sophisticate plumbing systems before, the Romans perfected it. I've once that the water consumption in Roman Cologne back then was equal to that in our times!

Most Democratic Governments today, including the US, are based on Roman models of governance.

Most legal systems around the world are based on the Jus Romanum, the Roman law originating in the Twelve Tables.

Most languages spoken on Western Europe descend from Romance, which descends from Latin, and which has a vast influence on English.

Romans invented our calendary, which with some changes is still in use today (you owe "July" and "August" to two well known figures).

Romans used the writing I'm using now, practically in the same way

Romans had probably the best road building technology of the Ancient Age and made numerous contributions to the field

Romans also invented concrete, which is used until our days for... your house and pretty much everything you see on the street

blah blah blah see for youself: http://www.mariamilani.com/ancient_r...inventions.htm.

It's actually very obvious, glaring and even overwhelming. Many things were also originally Roman, and do not fall into the general misconception you expressed here. Romans not only perfected many and many previous inventions but also had a fair share of their own, and what you could expect from a large Empire.

Moreover I think their biggest contribution was political thorough and thoroughly. Without Rome, the Papacy would probably never exist, and Christianity would never prosper inside the relative safety of Imperial borders, furthermore they played a part in the migrations of the late Empire that more or less composed the entire ethnic makeup of modern Europe; Romans also introduced new species of plants and animals into Europe during and before the Empire and were the first ones to make a systematic industrialized approach towards agriculture and mining that set them apart in efficiency, and which are more or less adopted in our industrial economies.

Etc.... etc... etc...

Edit: See also this.

[antisocialmunky]

Many devices and materials were also discovered independently in other places though at other times. However, the distinct traits of Western thinking and culture in general was greatly influenced by Rome.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Ahhh, thanks for the replies and links. I never doubted the massive contributions that the Romans have made, but with all the extreme Roman fans in the EB forums (as seen in this very thread) I was worried that at some point someone would state (or think) that everything the Romans had built was solely due to Roman engineering at its finest. I am a huge Roman fan myself (I almost solely play Roman campaigns) but I have somewhat become one of those people that does not like to see the contributions other cultures have made diminished. But anyway, thanks again for the quick reply!

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

Anyway, on the matter of non-original inventions: the Roman contribution is in no way diminished by the fact they weren't the original inventors. For example: one cannot deny that the US, Japan and countries around the world gave a very large contribution to the automobile industry in no way makes it smaller just for the fact that they did not invent the original Daimler Benz engine in the XIX century (in Germany). A great part of the Roman greatness comes from spreading Classical Greek culture and original ideas they adopted to very large proportions, such as the spatha designs (which influenced pretty much a lot of medieval swords, and was based on a previous Celtic one), chain mail (idem), aqueducts, their writing (which was based on the Etruscan one, that was based on Greek, which in turn came from the Phoenician alphabet) and etc...

So, regardless of fanboyism, Roman contributions were also great in their own way ;).