Poll: Should the Augustan Reforms be removed?

[a completely inoffensive name]

Well it has been over 8 months since this thread was started and over two months since the last post has been made. Normally I would have waited another 2-4 months to post in here again, but the previews and work in progress shown over the last two month toward unit models and overall completion including the awesome February Preview has made me bring up the thread for another quick pop in to ask if further discussion on the subject had been made. Not asking if an absolute decision has been made, just if at this stage you have a rough outline of what the future of the Augustan units will be. Either way, I assume once this thread has been brought back to the front page, we will have another round of great discussion with the added bonus of what knowledge we have picked up from the EB team along the last two months for greater and more intelligent arguments.

-ACIN

[Atilius]

EB members haven't devoted a word of discussion to Augustan reforms since this thread was started. I would not expect that to change before we've released a beta, and I wouldn't be utterly surprised if we went ahead and did new Augustan units without the subject ever coming up. There is no reason at all for us to even think about this for quite some time yet.

[satalexton]

don't you guys have a tighter unit slot allocation with those new factions popping up?

[Atilius]

don't you guys have a tighter unit slot allocation with those new factions popping up?

We have the same number of unit slots and more factions. But there are a lot of ways to deal with that. We have already removed some units, and we currently have open slots. In addition, a number existing EB1 units (including regionals) will be used by the new factions.

If we run out of unit slots the Augustan reforms may come under scrutiny. That won't happen any time soon.

[Megas Methuselah]

We have the same number of unit slots and more factions. But there are a lot of ways to deal with that. We have already removed some units, and we currently have open slots. In addition, a number existing EB1 units (including regionals) will be used by the new factions.

If we run out of unit slots the Augustan reforms may come under scrutiny. That won't happen any time soon.

Oh, I hope the Celto-Hellenic Hoplites are still in-game as factional units. They were the best.

[a completely inoffensive name]

We have the same number of unit slots and more factions. But there are a lot of ways to deal with that. We have already removed some units, and we currently have open slots. In addition, a number existing EB1 units (including regionals) will be used by the new factions.

If we run out of unit slots the Augustan reforms may come under scrutiny. That won't happen any time soon.

Alright I guess this might as well be retired for at least another 6 months, or until a beta comes out although I am not sure if that will be a year or two away.

[Megas Methuselah]

Alright I guess this might as well be retired for at least another 6 months, or until a beta comes out although I am not sure if that will be a year or two away.

Well, we have ETW to mildly amuse us until EB2 comes out and brings down teh house.

[Alsatia]

Well, we have ETW to mildly amuse us until EB2 comes out and brings down teh house.

ETW may blow up my computer... So I only got a pack of cards() to entertain me until a get a new comuter for EB2.

[keravnos]

We have the same number of unit slots and more factions. But there are a lot of ways to deal with that. We have already removed some units, and we currently have open slots. In addition, a number existing EB1 units (including regionals) will be used by the new factions.

If we run out of unit slots the Augustan reforms may come under scrutiny. That won't happen any time soon.

To my mind there is NO WAY we could have an EB II without the Imperial reforms. There. I said it.
The only thing I would like, is to see them take place earlier than they are now. Because Post Marius reforms (which too should be pushed back even earlier), I think that anyone could be Octavius with the right set of circumstances. The transition from Republic->Imperium was historically one of the major points of history at that time. In fact, it was the ONLY point of history which happened around Med. at that time. While it is true that any empire forged past 272 BCE is ahistorical, that doesn't mean we don't need an "anchor point" if you will, to show how things evolved THAT WE KNOW OF, THAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED AS TOLD.

Simple as that, really.

[Megas Methuselah]

To my mind there is NO WAY we could have an EB II without the Imperial reforms. There. I said it.
The only thing I would like, is to see them take place earlier than they are now. Because Post Marius reforms (which too should be pushed back even earlier), I think that anyone could be Octavius with the right set of circumstances. The transition from Republic->Imperium was historically one of the major points of history at that time. In fact, it was the ONLY point of history which happened around Med. at that time. While it is true that any empire forged past 272 BCE is ahistorical, that doesn't mean we don't need an "anchor point" if you will, to show how things evolved THAT WE KNOW OF, THAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED AS TOLD.

Simple as that, really.

Eurgh!!!

*reaches around to feel an invisible knife in his back*

Et tu, Brute?

[bobbin]

We have already removed some units

I'm guessing that means the Dosidataskeli, Ordmalica and Dubosaverlacica are finally gone, shame

[Megas Methuselah]

I'm guessing that means the Dosidataskeli, Ordmalica and Dubosaverlacica are finally gone, shame

And finally, I am of the opinion that the Celto-Hellenic Hoplites ought to be preserved.

[geala]

In my opinion they should definitely get rid of the Augustan reforms, as far as new units are concerned. It's too late and too short. It should however be possible to become princeps. So a kind of political reform should be kept. The military reforms would be very nice to have but in a fair balance I would give the slots to the new factions before I would cancel even one unit of another faction.

A growing problem is also the notorious "lorica segmentata". I find it a bit problematic to have an Augustan military reform for just a few years and not the new armour for the reformed troops. The finds for "lorica segmentata" at Kalkriese-Niewedde show that the armour was used by the Augustan legionaries with a certain degree. It is reasonable not to implement an armour that was only used in the last years of the EB timeframe. But then why have a military reform for only the last years of the timeframe?

Edit: some typos