NSFW area?

[a completely inoffensive name]

Well I fail to see how I have a responsibility to be nice to everyone and point everyone new in the right direction towards the FAQ when the FAQ should be the first thing that catches your eye when you enter.
Maybe instead of having 19 stickies with the FAQ hidden in the middle of them we could limit to idk maybe 8 at the very most, because honestly, its pointless to have things like the old preview topic, when the EB is moving onto EB2 and releasing the faction previews for that. Same goes with the development art. Oh and the screenshot competitions as well because those are so popular i doubt those are gonna get pushed to page 4.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Well this issue isn't like "we don't like the Tavern any more; we close it now."

I think I can speak for the team in saying nobody particularly liked the Tavern itself. As far as I can see most of us including myself, used not to mind it either. Just one of those threads you know. At time one might even commit to actually reading it or posting there.

But we've had rather [massive] outbreaks of SPAM, trolling, rudeness and general bad behaviour in this forum on multiple occasions. One such occasion saw the Tavern shut down; rudeness saw a page or two of the Tavern being wiped from these boards; and we've had another such occasion not too long ago.

The thing with a threat made in the Tavern to flood another mod's subfora with SPAM made us decide to do something that was pending for a long time. Much of the reasoning as outlined in the posts by Foot refer more to previous misbehaviour than to the last incident in the Tavern.

We do have a strong feeling that a lot of the misbehaviour elsewhere on these fora is fostered or incited at the Tavern; hence why it had to go first.

[Che Roriniho]

The best solution is, as always, to be polite, and treat everyone like human beings as they deserve.

That's kind of what the Tavern did. We only snapped when we were poked (see phalanx formation analogy).

Satalexton, that would be good, but it would just die a slow death, as no-one wuld know about it. I'm sorry to say, but our only option is the English one: Complain loudly, politely, but with more wit than any nomal man could ever muster.

And the general response to the closing of the Tav from the EB team, I have to say, is pretty poor. They're telling us to go somewhere we can't, accusing us of things we didn't, and effectively snubbing us.

[a completely inoffensive name]

The thing with a threat made in the Tavern to flood another mod's subfora with SPAM made us decide to do something that was pending for a long time. Much of the reasoning as outlined in the posts by Foot refer more to previous misbehaviour than to the last incident in the Tavern.

We do have a strong feeling that a lot of the misbehaviour elsewhere on these fora is fostered or incited at the Tavern; hence why it had to go first.

Or, you could have banned the guy who made the treat post in the first place?

Honestly, if you expect me to hear you say that because a few said some things, everyone must pay and not complain about it, then you have made a huge mistake.

[Moros]

There is still the frontroom, a better place for general off topic chat (The backroom is for politics and stuff). Perhaps you could use it as a place to continue your daily chatting. The forum is meant for it and has enough moderators (with more time) to keep everything in check. I've been a regular over there for 3 years, and I can tell you it's a fun community.
The tavern also has a gameroom, where different forumgames (Mainly Mafia) are played which can count for hours of fun. You learn to know more people and can chat about more different things. And it also being a TW subforum, people don't differ that much from here.

[Che Roriniho]

The whole reason most people, Hooahguy, and Appo, for example visited these forums was the the unnique atmosphere in the EB forum. These 2 have now gone, and with them, the soul of the Forum has gone.

Cheers Foot.

[satalexton]

then i suggest we all just end this all ruckus...unless you want the team to postpone eb2 indefinatly.....not everybody is an augustus, but i'm certainly seeing a lot of tiberius-wannabes..

[a completely inoffensive name]

There is still the frontroom, a better place for general off topic chat (The backroom is for politics and stuff). Perhaps you could use it as a place to continue your daily chatting. The forum is meant for it and has enough moderators (with more time) to keep everything in check. I've been a regular over there for 3 years, and I can tell you it's a fun community.
The tavern also has a gameroom, where different forumgames (Mainly Mafia) are played which can count for hours of fun. You learn to know more people and can chat about more different things. And it also being a TW subforum, people don't differ that much from here.

But it is not the same. Period. Don't give me swiss when I asked cheddar and say "well its cheese, its practically the same!"

[Tellos Athenaios]

And the general response to the closing of the Tav from the EB team, I have to say, is pretty poor. They're telling us to go somewhere we can't, accusing us of things we didn't, and effectively snubbing us.

'We' never did anything yet I recall a thread being made once by someone outside the team who got pretty angry over how low the general code of conduct appeared to have sunk. And 'we' never had done a thing back then either. Yeah. Had 'we'?

It is likely true that some individuals who are generally likeable and polite fellows now find themselves without one of their favourite threads now all of a sudden. I think I know at least one such member. Yes, that isn't really fair to them; they don't cause 'any' of the grief.

But there are others that do. And the Tavern didn't exactly help them mending their ways.

[Che Roriniho]

Well this issue isn't like "we don't like the Tavern any more; we close it now."

I think I can speak for the team in saying nobody particularly liked the Tavern itself. As far as I can see most of us including myself, used not to mind it either. Just one of those threads you know. At time one might even commit to actually reading it or posting there.

But we've had rather [massive] outbreaks of SPAM, trolling, rudeness and general bad behaviour in this forum on multiple occasions. One such occasion saw the Tavern shut down; rudeness saw a page or two of the Tavern being wiped from these boards; and we've had another such occasion not too long ago.

The thing with a threat made in the Tavern to flood another mod's subfora with SPAM made us decide to do something that was pending for a long time. Much of the reasoning as outlined in the posts by Foot refer more to previous misbehaviour than to the last incident in the Tavern.

We do have a strong feeling that a lot of the misbehaviour elsewhere on these fora is fostered or incited at the Tavern; hence why it had to go first.

Before this thread is locked, as it inevatably will be, as seems to be the case when someone says something the mods don't like, I need to explain, and retort these points. First of all, as I said in my above post, THE WHOLE REASON MANY PEOPLE CAME TO THE FORUM WAS THE TAVERN. Appo, Hooahguy, and I'm sure there's many more, also, just look at the views and posts. over 2,000 posts, that's the most on the forum, so saying no-one like it, is equivalent to saying no-one like the Sex Pistols because they couldn't lay to save their lives.

People have always made the Tav a home, whether or not the team understood this is neither here nor there, and the very fact that people have LEFT the forums, says something of the lack of forethopugh in this dicision.

That threat was out of loyalty, and no-one was really going to, partly because Hax told us not to, and us being decent individuals, we wouldn't trash someone elses work. This thing called jokes, you see.

Once again, Cheers EB.

[a completely inoffensive name]

'We' never did anything yet I recall a thread being made once by someone outside the team who got pretty angry over how low the general code of conduct appeared to have sunk. And 'we' never had done a thing back then either. Yeah. Had 'we'?

It is likely true that some individuals who are generally likeable and polite fellows now find themselves without one of their favourite threads now all of a sudden. I think I know at least one such member. Yes, that isn't really fair to them; they don't cause 'any' of the grief.

But there are others that do. And the Tavern didn't exactly help them mending their ways.

One person's opinion should not make an impact on everyone else. I guess I could have complained a month ago about how low the conduct was here because no one here is using "sir" or "mam" and the travern would have been shut down then huh?

[Che Roriniho]

It is likely true that some individuals who are generally likeable and polite fellows now find themselves without one of their favourite threads now all of a sudden. I think I know at least one such member. Yes, that isn't really fair to them; they don't cause 'any' of the grief.

But there are others that do. And the Tavern didn't exactly help them mending their ways.

Th grief from the Tavern was, the majority of the time, caused by newbies, who, as Mike said, didn't show common courtesy to the rest of the members. Again, see my Phalanx analogy. The Tav was a self-regulating place. Yes, standards were lower, but that certainly did not spill out into the wider forae.

[satalexton]

dude, just let it off and let the world run itself will ya? history has long proved that speaking the truth from your heart is the quickest way to get you killed...or in this case, banned.

now let's get back to talking about greek governments and roman tactics VS celtic arms shall we? =]

[Senshi]

Just wanted to express that I totally agree with the moderators' decision on locking the discussion down.

I loved the concept of tavern and though I'm a poor poster and more of a lurker in this forum, I liked reading it. That is, until at once the level of humour and discussion crashed to deep sea and got highly insulting and non-rational.

Serious discussions about serious Real Life matters in my opinion should never take place in public forums, it is almost inevitable that sooner or later the whole discussion turns into a mudpool.

As stated:

The Tavern shouldn't have been there to begin with. It was a mistake to allow it in the first place, it was a mistake to reopen it, and it was a mistake to leave it going as long as we did.

I totally second that!

In the forums I'm active in well-conduct and a great atmosphere is kept by a simple and effective rule:
"No politics, no religion!"
The strict enforcement of this includes deletion and closing every once in a time, but the majority agrees with the rule and most of the times even the "bad poster" agrees afterwards, as most of the times they don't intend creating a messy mudpool...

Hold up the level of behaviour EB-team though you might meet heavy opposition with some guys here, I'm pretty sure many others (who not necessarily are guys who post that often but prefer reading and learning) love the cultured and educated level of discussion in this forum (as I myself do).

[Hax]

Before this thread is locked, as it inevatably will be, as seems to be the case when someone says something the mods don't like, I need to explain, and retort these points. First of all, as I said in my above post, THE WHOLE REASON MANY PEOPLE CAME TO THE FORUM WAS THE TAVERN. Appo, Hooahguy, and I'm sure there's many more, also, just look at the views and posts. over 2,000 posts, that's the most on the forum, so saying no-one like it, is equivalent to saying no-one like the Sex Pistols because they couldn't lay to save their lives.

People have always made the Tav a home, whether or not the team understood this is neither here nor there, and the very fact that people have LEFT the forums, says something of the lack of forethopugh in this dicision.

That threat was out of loyalty, and no-one was really going to, partly because Hax told us not to, and us being decent individuals, we wouldn't trash someone elses work. This thing called jokes, you see.

Once again, Cheers EB.

Miscommunication. Comments like that, whether jokingly or not, are bound to have severe consequences. Jokes are hard to really get over the internet, so this was indeed a problem. I had feared that the threat in the Tavern would close it again, but after a good two pages, I thought that it wouldn't.

In that case, nobody except for me, is to blame for the closing of the Tavern. I personally liked the atmosphere around it, but things like that..discussing politics [in a nasty way], flames towards other mods, general swearing..it did help in the end.

A shame, as I said, but necessary. I completely understand the EB team's opinion on this matter and I respect it as well. I hope everyone does.

[Che Roriniho]

dude, just let it off and let the world run itself will ya? history has long proved that speaking the truth from your heart is the quickest way to get you killed...or in this case, banned.

now let's get back to talking about greek governments and roman tactics VS celtic arms shall we? =]

So abou's dream then? Sucking every ounce of soul from these forums, and then forgetting nothing happened. For remember, people who speak th truth and die, start revolutions.




CHE RORINIHO

[a completely inoffensive name]

dude, just let it off and let the world run itself will ya? history has long proved that speaking the truth from your heart is the quickest way to get you killed...or in this case, banned.

I highly doubt they will ban me because then that would be fair towards everyone. Just like how "someone made a threat in the tavern" they wont do anything except lock this down and punish everyone. If anyone bans me for this, then kudos to him or her because at least they are doing thier job right and not just cutting off the discussion entirely like a power hungry dictator.

[russia almighty]

So, who is cool with some creating a half assed off site board and call it the EB fan tavern?


It could be the den of evil everyone is looking for.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Th grief from the Tavern was, the majority of the time, caused by newbies, who, as Mike said, didn't show common courtesy to the rest of the members. Again, see my Phalanx analogy. The Tav was a self-regulating place. Yes, standards were lower, but that certainly did not spill out into the wider forae.

That view isn't shared by either the ORG moderator we've had contact with or the EB team. The simple fact that Moros was met with blank disbelief when he told people that the ORG actually has rules and that these applied to the Tavern too; is telling me enough.

If you want a Tavern there is the Frontroom. If you want politics there is the Backroom. If you want to talk about AARs, Historical questions, Remodding EB or anything else which is actually related to EB -- then you should be here.

Once upon a time there wasn't a Tavern yet in these foras. And yet people did come here and did enjoy themselves here. Why don't you read many of the other threads on these fora first, before complaining that without the Tavern all will be darkness and no joy will be found here anymore?

[satalexton]

@ russia
I am, cuz I simply don't like the sight of Tiberius Gracchus clones being pwned by the Scipo.

If you start one, I'll help you run it.

[Che Roriniho]

Miscommunication. Comments like that, whether jokingly or not, are bound to have severe consequences. Jokes are hard to really get over the internet, so this was indeed a problem. I had feared that the threat in the Tavern would close it again, but after a good two pages, I thought that it wouldn't.

In that case, nobody except for me, is to blame for the closing of the Tavern. I personally liked the atmosphere around it, but things like that..discussing politics [in a nasty way], flames towards other mods, general swearing..it did help in the end.

A shame, as I said, but necessary. I completely understand the EB team's opinion on this matter and I respect it as well. I hope everyone does.

It is not your fault, it is the fault of the complete idiots who insulted various people inside the Tav. I take full and unreserved responsiblity for that anti-israel post, but bear in mind, I do have family reasons to dislike the Zionists, and I was containing about 6 bottles of Dutch beer at the time, but that is still no excuse.
Peopple say things they regret in all paths of life. Live and let live.
And Senshi, by lurking, you've missed the point of the Tavern. it's like going to a real pub, sitting in a corner with a blanket over your head, then complaining no-one talks to you. It's something you have to partake in, not watch. At least, it was.

[abou]

So abou's dream then? Sucking every ounce of soul from these forums, and then forgetting nothing happened. For remember, people who speak th truth and die, start revolutions.

My dream? Thanks for that. You may have come to the EB forum like a few others simply for the Tavern, but that was never the purpose of the forum itself.

[a completely inoffensive name]

That view isn't shared by either the ORG moderator we've had contact with or the EB team. The simple fact that Moros was met with blank disbelief when he told people that the ORG actually has rules and that these applied to the Tavern too; is telling me enough.

If you want a Tavern there is the Frontroom. If you want politics there is the Backroom. If you want to talk about AARs, Historical questions, Remodding EB or anything else which is actually related to EB -- then you should be here.

Once upon a time there wasn't a Tavern yet in these foras. And yet people did come here and did enjoy themselves here. Why don't you read many of the other threads on these fora first, before complaining that without the Tavern all will be darkness and no joy will be found here anymore?

I do read many of the other threads, but you can only talk about the game so much. The Tavern was an area where EB fans could talk to other EB fans about things other then EB and in my opinion it makes people feel more involved in the community. Now that you have shut it down, it makes me think: "Will anyone that joins who makes an off topic thread be shut down out of concerns of another out of control tavern?" It was a stupid mistake to shut it down, because the smart thing to do as a mod is to get rid of those causing trouble not just closing the friggen topic down!

[Bellum]

Well I fail to see how I have a responsibility to be nice to everyone and point everyone new in the right direction

Which is, as I said, an immature point of view. It's a bad attitude that hurts everyone.

Another example:

Honestly, if you expect me to hear you say that because a few said some things, everyone must pay and not complain about it, then you have made a huge mistake.

This is a rude and hostile attack against the mods. If everyone would explain their reasoning logically and without hostility, it would be much easier to reach a conclusion. These insistent attacks and demands won't lead to any productive end. The mods will likely lock this thread, and you will have gained nothing. Perhaps the mods and some other people will have lost some respect for you because of your inability to act coolly.

[Che Roriniho]

That view isn't shared by either the ORG moderator we've had contact with or the EB team. The simple fact that Moros was met with blank disbelief when he told people that the ORG actually has rules and that these applied to the Tavern too; is telling me enough.

If you want a Tavern there is the Frontroom. If you want politics there is the Backroom. If you want to talk about AARs, Historical questions, Remodding EB or anything else which is actually related to EB -- then you should be here.

Once upon a time there wasn't a Tavern yet in these foras. And yet people did come here and did enjoy themselves here. Why don't you read many of the other threads on these fora first, before complaining that without the Tavern all will be darkness and no joy will be found here anymore?

You don't get it. We don't want the Backroom, bexcause that's not the Tavern.

[Warmaster Horus]

I didn't think I'd post here, because I side entirely with the EB team on this, and I think there's enough of them to make a point. That said, I don't disagree with some of the points made by the "taverners", notably the idea of a community.
But...

things other then EB

... don't have anything to do with EB, right? Then, logically, they don't have a reason to be in this sub-forum. As has already been said, the EB forum isn't all there is to the Org. If you want off-topic, then you go to the Frontroom.
If you're 'desperate' for an EB community to have an off-topic thread, then make an EB Tavern in the Frontroom, where that kind of stuff belongs.

[Bellum]

You don't get it. We don't want the Backroom, bexcause that's not the Tavern.

It's ok, Jimmy. You can make new friends!

[Che Roriniho]

My dream? Thanks for that. You may have come to the EB forum like a few others simply for the Tavern, but that was never the purpose of the forum itself.

I camehere because of th game. I started the Unofficial Manual Project fo one, so it's hardly joining just for the Tavern, but this was 'base' for me. And Mike is right, there is only so much EB you want to talk about, but you still want to talk to the people. This was the Tavern.

[a completely inoffensive name]

This is a rude and hostile attack against the mods. If everyone would explain their reasoning logically and without hostility, it would be much easier to reach a conclusion. These insistent attacks and demands won't lead to any productive end. The mods will likely lock this thread, and you will have gained nothing. Perhaps the mods and some other people will have lost some respect for you because of your inability to act coolly.

If you actually read my posts in this thread you would realize that have made many good points and yet no reply from the mods themselves. I ask them why just ban whoever is making the threats or swearing etc..instead of shutting down the thread entirely. And yet no answer.

Also, you should seriously take a look at yourself because it seems to me as if you revere the mods as some infallable people that everyone should look up to. If they dont like my opinions thats fine, I dont care, I made my point and if they refuse to respond because of "a loss of respect" then thats thier own stubbornness and arrogance. Now very politely I am going to ask:

Dear mods, why not just crackdown on the guys who are causing the trouble instead of closing the thread which many more, non-trouble causing people are using?
-Mike

[The Persian Cataphract]

Well, we're sorry for not conforming to your utopia of the EB forum being a second branch of the British Library: Full of history and wonderful things, but fundamentally dull and quiet.

So? This is still not a sandbox for your enjoyment. This is not Orkut.

Also, I resent your tasteless remark on Abou's character. This was a decision rather unanimously taken by the team, and even I who despise censorship more than any of your sorry asses, couldn't bear myself to defend the Tavern. In an especially notorious case, a board-invasion was incited. Guess what, we didn't ruin anything. You guys did that perfectly well on your own.

If Mike Hunt thinks our decision was "bullshit", tough luck for him. We are not obliged to cater, we do this in our spare time, and the fact that the hand of offering was voraciously devoured along with the arm to which the hand was attached, is greeted by insolent protests, just begs to ask just how audacious one can get.