Perils of Finlandization

[Kääpäkorven Konsuli]

A treaty that gives that Finland if forced to help Soviet if Soviet is attacked through Finland and that Soviet will help if Finland is attacked. First question is if the conditions would actually occur, would Finland keep it?

Pacta sunt servanda. What if Soviet Union would have attacked Norway? Would Usa and others start full scale war? I think it is better to assume that all treaties would have been kept.

Second, NATO-forces would have to go through Sweden to get to Finland and Sweden wouldn't allow that with anything less but a Soviet declaration of war. That would make the Soviet request a transit through Finland (something not put in any treay). Would Finland accept such a demand during the Cold (now hot) war?

At least Nato's plans treated Finland more like an ally of Soviets than neutral contry.

Third, who exactly was the enemy that the oversized Finnish army trained to face?

I really can't say. Why nations have armies? And was Finnish army really that oversized, when compared to, lets say, Swedish army?

[Ironside]

I really can't say. Why nations have armies? And was Finnish army really that oversized, when compared to, lets say, Swedish army?

Not really, and that's the point, the sole purpose of the large Swedish army was in case of a Soviet invasion.

That's why it has been decreasing now when the Cold war is over. It will be interesting to see the Swedish military development now when Russia has started a more aggressive foreign policy again.

[Marshal Murat]

The fact that Finland ended up being finlandized was because the country had allied with nazi Germany from 1941 to 1944 in the so-called 'Finnish-German Brotherhood of Arms' ... Finland believed that Germany was the powerhouse of the future.

Finland took advantage of the old adage, "The Enemy of My Enemy, He is My Friend". Finland had just come off a loss against the Soviet Union in the Winter War, mostly through inaction on Britain's part. An irony of that is the Soviet Union set up the invasion by having Finnish artillery kill ten Soviet soldiers.

So in 1941 Finland could've stayed neutral, or they could've contributed to the effort against the Soviet Union. They chose to launch a campaign to regain several regions lost through Soviet actions, since it was a better idea. Germany was sweeping eastward, and the Finnish wanted to get back what was theirs. While they started a 'Finnish-German Brotherhood of Arms', it wasn't because they agreed with the ideology, it was simply because joining the Allies meant they would be working with the Soviets, who took alot of their land.

[Prince Cobra]

Well, the countires western that Germany are in something called "no-man-land". After the WWI all the great powers in the region collapsed. In WWII, these powers (the USSR and Germany) tried to hold what they thought have lost. I doubt if USSR had the opportunity to bring back Finland easily, it would have been satisfied with Karelia. After all Stalin felt like a real Tzar in Kremlin. I believe something like the Baltic scenario would have happened. Well, the Soviet plans were wrong and this war was too expensive to be contunued. It turned out that the price for conquering Finland was too high.


About the pro-German orientation. I can not say what extend of democracy this country had, in fact this matters little since the real democracies were too few then. I am ony positive the regime of Finland was not totalitarian. And as far as their pro-German orientation.. Well, for the countries between Germany and USSR the choice was simple: Germany or USSR. Great Britain was faaaar away, France collapsed quickly. I would say that Germany was the most probable ally:

1) USSR tried to swallow it and the Karelia case.

2) The German political regime did not include nationalisation and did not seem so revolutionary.

3) Germany was victorious.





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The article I read has no sources and I admit I'm not a specialist in this period but this is my impression.

As far as the anti-Soviet policy and the pro-Soviet policy: I will not be surprised if Finland had switched from strict anti-Soviet policy to more friendly one in the period between WWI and nowadays. I see nothing wrong and nothing surprising. When your independence is threatened, you get hostile. When you have interest of good relations with your neighbour, I see nothing wrong to warm the relations.


As far as I know, the best encyclopedias and books of USSR were printed in Finland (finnish paper). Probably, there were also some Finns living in the USSR and vice-versa... And is an economical profit and the interest of your people a good reason to warm the relations? After all you get nothing from bad relations with your neighbour but good one can give you something.

The case between Bulgaria and Greece was similiar, if that's the case.

[Adrian II]

Finland had just come off a loss against the Soviet Union in the Winter War, mostly through inaction on Britain's part.

Re-read your own sentence a couple of times. Note the word 'mostly'. What does it tell us?

[Marshal Murat]

That Finland stood little chance of winning the war without British support, support that was not forthcoming in any amount. There were still variables to the situation, but had Britain supported Finland against the USSR, it would've definitely changed a few perspectives.

[Adrian II]

That Finland stood little chance of winning the war without British support, support that was not forthcoming in any amount. There were still variables to the situation, but had Britain supported Finland against the USSR, it would've definitely changed a few perspectives.

Can you explain how Britain, which had trouble enough to keep its expeditionary army in France on a proper war-footing, could have declared war on the Soviet Union as well as Germany and effectively aided Finland in its Winter War? I think your view shows little appreciation of Britain's position and capacity at that time, to say the least.

Besides, Soviet peace offers since January 1940 and the Moscow Peace Treaty of March 12, 1940, effectively killed any ideas of British/French military support before they could become operational.

[KarlXII]

Britain didn't want to help Finland. They wanted to send the expeditionary army to sieze Swedish iron to keep from the Germans. I highly doubt help was ever coming.