Arab, Turkish, and Indian navies

**Khazar_Dahvos** · 08-24-2008, 07:48

I thought this would be a rather interesting topic. Now I am somewhat familiar with turkish and arab ships but not Indian but any ways I foung this quote from an expert found here http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7304
Here is the bit that relates to ETW

The ships which constitute the Ottoman Navy can be divided two groups: Çektiri or Çekdirme (the galley-type, oared ships) and galleon-type sailing ships. Çektiris were powered by oars and sails, and the large galleon type ships used sails alone. Somewhere between the oared galleys and the galleons fall the baştarda, kadırga, mavna, kalyata, firkete and pergandi. Even smaller sailing ships, include the karamürsel, palaşlermeler and slimmer, navy ships.

Sailing ships

At the end of the fifteenth century, in paralel with the development of Ottoman maritime affairs in the Mediterranean, the Ottomans started to build not only oared ships but also sailing ships. In the sixteenth century, the Ottomans preferred oared ships; sailing ships were not developed until the middle of seventeenth century. In this period, the Ottomans started to build many types of galleons with different features; göke (Kogge, Coge: a çektiri-type of warship with oars and sails), barça (barge: a two or three-masted sailing warship with a falt bottom), ağribar (a small, single-masted sailing warship, rather used for trading transportations), kalyon (galleon: a three-masted sailing warship). New type of sailing ships with different features developed during the eighteenth century; burtun, karavele (caravelle: sailing warship), firkateyn (frigate: a single-deck, single-masted sailing warship smaller than a galleon), kapak (two-deck, galleon-type warship), korvet (corvette: a three-masted sailing warship), brik (brig: a single-deck, two-masted, full and square rigged, fast sailing warship), şalope / çalope (sloop: small sailing battleship without hold), şeftiye /şitye (a two-masted sailing ship), uskuna (schooner: a two-masted sailing warship), kotra / kotr or koter (a single-masted, slimmer, lighter and shorter sloop-type sailing ship), pink (one of the smaller sailing ships), gulet (galeotta /galliot: a two-masted, light frigate sailing ship smaller than brik (brig), ateş gemisi / bomba gemisi (a ship full of explosive materials).

Now I hope that CA can make resonable ships for the indian and turk, and arab factions and not just some crappy Dhows!!!! The Ottomans didnt even go with modern ships until the Russian-Ottoman Wars of 1768 - 1774?
Any other thoughts on the subject?

**rajpoot** · 08-24-2008, 10:59

How they'll deal with Indian navies is something I too would really like to see......for one, I don't think there were any serious conflicts in the seas here. There were pirates in the Indian ocean, but they were in no way related to any of the states in India proper. The only kind of vessels used here, (that I know of) were fishing vessels, and long canoes in the lagoons towards the Southern part of the peninsula.

**Khazar_Dahvos** · 08-24-2008, 16:41

Yeahh there were alot of Arab pirates that preyed on those shipping lanes as well as those from europe

**Sheogorath** · 08-24-2008, 20:00

Didn't the Brits get into occasional scuffles with the French and various Mahratta-state navies? I think that, early in the game, the Ottomans still had some presence in the Indian Ocean too.

Regardless, anybody with a navy that could present a thread was probably using something based on a European design by this point.
Maybe there'll be some Mercenary Junks, though ;)

**Zenicetus** · 08-24-2008, 21:42

Originally Posted by Khazar_Dahvos

Yeahh there were alot of Arab pirates that preyed on those shipping lanes as well as those from europe

Ugh, I really hope they don't overdo the "pirate" theme. The game is named "Empire: Total War" not "Minor Police Action on the High Seas: Total War."

I hope most sea battles are between powerful, state of the art ships owned by actual empire-seeking factions, not minor rabble. Pirates avoided real navies whenever possible, with just a few historical exceptions that prove the rule. They might take on a single naval vessel if the odds look good, but they should turn tail and run at the first sight of a serious naval fleet. Otherwise they could end up being just a time-wasting, micromanagement headache like the land-based rebels in RTW and M2TW. Just busy work, not having anything to do with your strategic expansion.

If there have to be pirates in the game, at least give us a command for an admiral to take a few ships and automatically "go kill those guys, wherever they run" without me having to do that manually.

**Rhyfelwyr** · 08-24-2008, 22:59

Pirates should probably be represented by a reduction in trade income, similar to the way corruption or devastation work. I really don't want to fight off hundreds of one-ship pirate navies.

**Gray Beard** · 08-25-2008, 00:56

I don't see that the various small states have to have unique units. I think that most musketeers probably had pretty similar stats. The difference is in moral and training.

To use an example from M2TWI, is there really any reason that the Byzantines wouldn't have equipped and trained gunpowder units if they hadn't been too busy trying not to die? Developing technology is largely an activity that is rooted in need, wealth, time and education. The place you start on the technology continuum should perhaps color your choices and limit you at least at first, but because this is a game you should be able to overcome your history.

I had a really long post on this topic but deleted the rest.

**rajpoot** · 08-25-2008, 04:16

Originally Posted by Sheogorath

Didn't the Brits get into occasional scuffles with the French and various Mahratta-state navies? I think that, early in the game, the Ottomans still had some presence in the Indian Ocean too.

Regardless, anybody with a navy that could present a thread was probably using something based on a European design by this point.
Maybe there'll be some Mercenary Junks, though ;)

You are right there, I ought to have re-checked my history before posting

Now that I search, it turns out that there were, atleast in the early days a few conflicts between the East India Company ships and the Maratha ships. The latter however, came to be more famous as pirates (for that is what they were considered by the EIC).

I also found this little article; Quite interesting, but it still does not say if there was any specific ship designe here.......
http://indiannavy.nic.in/history.htm

**Khazar_Dahvos** · 08-25-2008, 05:26

that is quite an interesting article!!! Thanxs India!!!!!

**Martok** · 08-25-2008, 06:10

Originally Posted by Caledonian Rhyfelwyr

Pirates should probably be represented by a reduction in trade income, similar to the way corruption or devastation work. I really don't want to fight off hundreds of one-ship pirate navies.

Ditto that. I would be perfectly happy with pirates being represented abstractly via decreased trade income. And if I need to keep a few 5th-raters and/or frigates to patrol my trade routes in order to prevent my trade income from dipping, that's fine -- just so long as they don't have to actually hunt down every buccaneer that shows up.