Three new previews!!

[Martok]

http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic...paign-map.html (translated to English)

TVG interview with CA employees Kieran Brigden and Mark Sutherns.

Gamers Global


At the moment, I'm very tired and ready to go to bed, so will comment more tomorrow when I have the time & energy.

For now, I will only say that the third article (from Gamers Global) was the one I found to be most interesting, as it discusses the AI, campaign map, and diplomacy at greater length than most previews have so far.

[Praxil]

http://www.totalvideogames.com/tvgad...data/82167.jpg

If this is the DVD box art. Then Creative Assembly and Sega should change the title of the game while they still can, to British Empire: Total War. No need to be hypocritical with this title now. Rome: Total War was all about Rome with all fairness, so that title was correct.

I hope they change that to something far more beautiful. Unless of course this game is all about British Empire. Instead of flags and crap like that, there should be a picture of grand battle with howitzers firing and huge armies clashing in to the battle. Something like this: http://www.napolun.com/mirror/web2.a...net_battle.jpg

[Jack Lusted]

There are box art variations for many countries, see this thread:

http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/36021

[pevergreen]

Ive only read the third one so far, but CA seems to be dealing with every problem ever found in previous games. What's not to love?

[SaFe]

There are box art variations for many countries, see this thread:

http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/36021

@Jack
Thank for your responses so far, but i'm really afraid you'll use the modern french flag and the ridiculous prussian one from the box art in-game.
Perhaps your(CA's) artists should take a look at the flags during those times.
It would be nice, if you can tell us this flags are only used for marketing reasons on the box art and not in the final game.

And... i have the slight fear you'll left Austria out of the game as playable nation. I understand you can't comment this, but hopefully THE major power during this timeframe in central europe will make it in the game.
And no.. I'm not Austrian:-)

[hoom]

That Gamers Global one has lots of very interesting bits in it :D (at least if that stuff actually works in the final game the way I'm imagining it)

[rajpoot]

One thing that I do not like the sound of is about armies not being useful on ships.........I know this has been said before (I remember a long debate on how they'll show elephants on the ship's deck is the transport them, and they show the armies onboard).
But what it all comes down too is, that if I'm attacked by a large enemy fleet, and my ship is laden with crack troops, then it simply won't do for them to sit around during boarding action.......it's just not realistic.

[Warmaster Horus]

Just went through the TVG preview. First reaction is obviously that it's going to be great! And there are now 12 factions confirmed!
With hindsight, I'm wondering about the demo. They did say no historical battles, so will it only be a tutorial, or will it include a couple (or 3) factions unlocked for custom battles?

[anders]

@Jack

And... i have the slight fear you'll left Austria out of the game as playable nation. I understand you can't comment this, but hopefully THE major power during this timeframe in central europe will make it in the game.
And no.. I'm not Austrian:-)

they cant posibly be leaving out austria in a napoelonic-era strategy game, can they? It might not have had too big a role in overseas colonization, but like you said, its a main player on the continent.

[Mailman653]

There are box art variations for many countries, see this thread:

http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/36021

You can buy the game in several "flavors" very nice
That guy on the cover sure gets around. A few posts up someone mentioned the French flag as being the modern one. Isn't the modern one the same one as the one used in the revolution? I think maybe from a marketing stand point, the French tricolor flag is more recognizable than the flag the monarchy used which I think would of been all white with several fluer de lys (sp) on it plus I think if that cover is exclusive to France, French players might prefer their flag over the previous royal flag, IMO.

As for that German flag.....where is that one from?

[PBI]

One thing that I do not like the sound of is about armies not being useful on ships.........I know this has been said before (I remember a long debate on how they'll show elephants on the ship's deck is the transport them, and they show the armies onboard).
But what it all comes down too is, that if I'm attacked by a large enemy fleet, and my ship is laden with crack troops, then it simply won't do for them to sit around during boarding action.......it's just not realistic.

Makes some sense if the troops are all aboard unarmed transports; after taking out the escorts, rather than boarding the transports, it would make sense for your ships to just sink them at range with cannon fire.

Regarding flags, I wouldn't worry too much; if any of them are off in-game I imagine there will be a mod to fix it within about 20 minutes of release.

[Mailman653]

Regarding flags, I wouldn't worry too much; if any of them are off in-game I imagine there will be a mod to fix it within about 20 minutes of release.

Very true

[Discoman]

That's a good question. We're actually, in terms of strict terminology, we're removing the historical battles this time around.

Aww I really liked those. Well I guess sacrifices need to be made for all the other awesome stuff in the game.

[Praxil]

There are box art variations for many countries, see this thread:

http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/36021

So are these really final? Disappointing, as a matter in fact highly disappointing. Can't get it why Nationalism was chosen to be promoted by this game. That sea battle looks good and above the title with that soldier, on the background there could have been huge land battle. No flags of any nation.

[SaFe]

You can buy the game in several "flavors" very nice
That guy on the cover sure gets around. A few posts up someone mentioned the French flag as being the modern one. Isn't the modern one the same one as the one used in the revolution? I think maybe from a marketing stand point, the French tricolor flag is more recognizable than the flag the monarchy used which I think would of been all white with several fluer de lys (sp) on it plus I think if that cover is exclusive to France, French players might prefer their flag over the previous royal flag, IMO.

As for that German flag.....where is that one from?

Well, as CA told us events don't happen automatically the french revolution is perhaps never going to happen, so the tricolourflag seems a bad idea. As the game starts as early as 1700 the white royal flag seems much more logical for France.

As for Prussia i really can't imagine why those flag (box art) had been chosen. Perhaps Jack could enlighten us here. I've never seen a prussian flag with this colours.

[Jack Lusted]

Well that isn't a Prussian flag, though the German box art has now been changed to have the Prussian flag on it.

[Martok]

Can't get it why Nationalism was chosen to be promoted by this game.

Perhaps because this was an era that saw a fair amount of it. Not that it was as pronounced as it was in the late 19th & early 20th centuries, of course, but it did have a fairly significant impact on world affairs (and especially among the European powers) in the time period covered by Empire.




But I digress. Going over the Global Gamers preview again, here are some of the things that caught my attention (passages have been edited for brevity's sake):

Battle AI: The Battle AI will be improved in another way: So far, the Total War AI was "stage based": There were certain steps the AI general would follow, for example, to take a city: First stage, approach the gate and destroy it. Second stage, enter the town, and so on. If one of those stage goals was interrupted by the human player, the enemy AI would stall, which lead to heavy losses (e.g. in Medieval 2, when cavalry would remain in range of defenders' ranged weapons). Now, we learned, the AI will be goal oriented (for example: "inflict losses on the enemy", or "get into the city somehow"), which should make it act more flexibly.

Marvelous! If this actually works, then it should go a long way towards fixing the "passive AI" problem that has plagued the previous Total War titles (particularly Rome & Medieval 2).

Nation AI and Generals' AI: Creative Assembly will not use "Special Abilities" like in the Crusader part of the Medieval 2 Kingdoms addon: Instead, there will be personality traits to nations and generals, but they will be more about what kinds of troops they muster. A general named Napoleon Bonaparte, for example, might be expected to be very keen on using artillery. Battle tactics could vary, too, some generals preferring flanking attacks, other choosing frontal assaults more often.

Wow. For as long and as often as people have wished that factions/generals would exhibit specific tactics & styles, I never thought that this could actually happen. 'Twill be very cool if this works as intended.

The new Campaign map system: Movement on the Campaign map will work differently than before. Instead of tile-by-tile, it will be pixel-by-pixel (but still turn based), with each army, town and fort having a zone of influence around it. When two zones meet, a battle occurs. This also help with hindering movement. Because you will be able to place forts anywhere you want, it should now be possible to actually have a "Limes" or a "Great Wall" along your border, with the enemy having to fight at least once in order to enter your country.

Another feature I'm heartily glad to see. One of the things in Rome/Medieval 2 that always bothered me was how armies had no way of intercepting each other, unless you somehow managed to ascertain in advance where an enemy army was going. Good to see that this will finally (hopefully!) be rectified.

Diplomacy 201: Diplomacy in Empire Total War will be much more detailed and "authentic", Creative Assembly promises. For example, there will be more kind of treaties and requests, and there will be different ways to "ask for" or "demand" something. You can also protest against foreign actions, instead of just be able to declare war. The decline in a relationship will be slow and noticeable, for example, there might be more and more duels between the other nation's gentlemen and your own, hinting at their home nation getting belligerent. Diplomatic notes and requests will show where a nation is headed in a relationship, so there will be advance warnings, and an escalation of conflicts instead of having a former ally turn into enemy within just one turn. Also, it will be much less likely for long time allies to turn on you. You will be able to see the relationships between other nations, as well, and to act on them. For example, if Russia is hostile towards our Prussia, and France and Russia hate each other, too: Why not ask Russia if she would like to go to war with us against France? By the way, in the case of you being attacked, your allies most probably will help you. But in the case of you being the attacker, your allies will think twice of joining you in the aggression.

Now a diplomacy system like this is what I've always wanted to see! No more allies suddenly deciding they hate you and invading without any reason or advance warning, especially if you've been friends with them for a long time. The AI having a more cognizant recognition of the concept of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend".

The passages I underlined make me particularly excited: How often have we wanted the ability to express our displeasure with another faction (e.g., "Hey! Knock it off!") that *didn't* include angry men with swords and axes? And the fact that factions can now (supposedly) distinguish between helping an ally who's attacked versus an ally who's the aggressor is simply delicious.

Weather: So far in the Total War series, weather was influencing line of sight and the effectiveness of ranged units. Now, it will do much more. First, there can be many more weather conditions (examples given were light rain, heavy rain, monsoon torrents, light and heavy snow, ice storms, dust and sand storms). Even cannons can jam at very low temperatures, and don't expect the morale of your troops be high when they're just freezing.

While this certainly sounds cool, I'll admit I have my doubts. Weather hasn't played a major role in battles since MTW, so CA will have to forgive me if I remain somewhat skeptical about this claim. It's definitely a case of "I'll believe it when I see it".

Interface: Also, there are two new buttons to manually increase or decrease the rank and file of a unit.

Sounds like a great idea. It would definitely save time on having to manually drag units into a firing line/marching column.

[anders]

all the diplomacy options in the world wont do any good unless the AI is considerably more rational than before, but with battle and diplomatic AI being fused together, that might be the case.(crossing fingers)

[PBI]

Well that's the million dollar question isn't it? Will we get a campaign AI which can really deal properly with the campaign map? It's absolutely essential for this game since the AI will need to be able to mount complicated extended overseas expeditions in the New World and expand properly whilst at the same time managing its holdings at home without letting them fall behind or cheaply losing them.

It's really going to be the thing that makes or breaks the game for me, whether the campaign AI will be able to deal with the new map properly. An AI which can't expand properly and constantly spams militia until it bankrupts itself would be a real letdown.

[Mount Suribachi]

Less micro management: One of the hassles of the Total War series since Rome (which introduced the concept of tile-by-tile moving units on the campaign map instead of the province-to-province, Risc style of Shogun and Medieval 1) was the many single-unit armies you were commanding: In order to get reinforcements to the front, you had to send them there. And although you could just tell them their target spot and wait until they reached it, they still cluttered the map. Empire Total War will have a different approach: Here, generals are calling for reinforcements, and they will be sent to them automatically from their home cities. You'll be able to see that reinforcements on the map, but in a way which makes clear that they are no active units, yet. In order to get reinforcements to your field armies, they need to be "land linked" to at least one of your cities. So after a naval landing, without securing a town on the same isle or continent, you won't get those reinforcements. By this new system, Creative Assembly wants to ensure that there are less playing pieces (Armies) on the campaign map, but each being meaningful. It will be still possible to split your armies, though.

Oh Joy! Does this mean the end of all those annoying battles against 1,2 or 3 enemy units? Soooo tedious and a waste of time - but you can't autoresolve them because of the high losses your 12 unit stack suffers. I'm only interested in the proper battles

[rajpoot]

But imagine, just imagine what if everything CA has said about this game comes true, what if every damn flaw in the previous titles is cleared away in this one..............I mean I don't set much store by optimism, but yet, just imagine.....what a game it would be!!!! Just thinking about it makes me dizzy with happiness :D

[anders]

that would indeed be a good thing India, but I wouldnt get my hopes too high. then again, the preview reports seem very promising.

[Sheogorath]

Oh Joy! Does this mean the end of all those annoying battles against 1,2 or 3 enemy units? Soooo tedious and a waste of time - but you can't autoresolve them because of the high losses your 12 unit stack suffers. I'm only interested in the proper battles

I got annoyed with those to the point where I was just auto_win'ing them. Technically cheating, but to me, it doesn't count if you're going to win anyway :P

Of course, sometimes it is fun to watch your king's personal army of elite cavalry and infantry utterly crush that unit of one-armed peasants the computer sent after you.

[Monk]

The two things I was hoping for in Empire was quite simply:

1. Improved AI.
2. Better and more in-depth Diplomacy options.

Until very recently both were only talked about except for using very vague language or the kind that a regular schmuck like me couldn't quite grasp. After these three previews, the gamers Global in particular; I have to say that for the first time I feel genuinely excited about Empire. After being a fan of the series since the STW days, when all we had was 3 states of being (ally, neutral, enemy) i've been wanting to see a full on diplomacy model that had an authentic feel. Rome and M2 came close to this, but the reputation system was bugged and we still didn't have enough options.

I'll say this. That if the AI in Empire is improved and can not only use the new diplomatic options but exploit them and really use them to it's advantage - watch out! We may have a true challenge awaiting us. We can only hope.

[Jolt]

Let's see if Portugal gets included as a playable faction as they should. Being one of the very few nations who could actually boast having a multi continental colonial empire.

[Sheogorath]

Let's see if Portugal gets included as a playable faction as they should. Being one of the very few nations who could actually boast having a multi continental colonial empire.

Aside from the British, French, Spanish, Ottomans, Dutch, Russians, and Oman, right? :P

[Martok]

Indeed.

However, let's not derail the thread into a discussion of which factions should/will be playable. (I started a separate thread for that.)

[Jolt]

Aside from the British, French, Spanish, Ottomans, Dutch, Russians, and Oman, right? :P

Exactly so. Only 8 nations.

[batemonkey]

After my British game, i think the dutch would present quite a challenge, stuck between the british navy and the french army. I can't wait to send my fleet out to capture strategic pinch points across the map

[Divinus Arma]

I needed a towel to clean up after myself once I finished reading these links. No more internet porn for me! I'll just read these previews again.