Dealing With Cav. As England

[Tratorix]

What works best for dealing with cavalry as England? Militia spears appear to be rubbish and can only take down lighter cav. units. Also, is it better to form your unit up, let it absorb the cavalry charge, then attack or just charge at them right away?

[PBI]

Longbowmen's stakes are a brutally effective anti-cavalry weapon on the defense. Failing that, your best bet is probably to pin them with your own cavalry and engage with infantry to wipe them out once bogged down. England's 2-handers (Dismounted English Knights, various flavours of Billmen) perform decently against cavalry in prolonged melee since the 1.2 patch, but cannot withstand a cavalry charge; hence it is best to counter-charge with your own cavalry since cavalry charges aren't nearly as effective against other cavalry as against infantry.

English Knights are also surprisingly effective counter-cavalry since their secondary weapons are armour-piercing axes, which gives them a real edge in a scrap against similarly armoured knights. In all the English have several powerful anti-cavalry tactics, but since they lack the most obvious one (pikes/heavy spearmen) it takes a little creativity to use them well. You could make a more traditional anti-cavalry force if you can afford enough Mercenary Spearmen, but don't even bother with Levy Spears, they are essentially Spear Militia but without the free upkeep in cities, they have no chance against heavy cavalry.

[PrestigeX]

well despite the obvious use of stakes,
probably the best thing you can do is have your archers concentrate fire on the enemy's heavy cavalry.
using your own Knights against heavy cavalry is a waste, because it just tends to be a slug match and you will lose enough of your own troops, UNLESS your archers have halfed their numbers, your cav will ride them down.

Don't worry too much about the enemy's infantry, because you will be building armored swordsmen when they are available.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Cavalry versus infantry is a bad, bad matchup.... except when they have a FORMED CHARGE.
Don't allow them to have a formed charge. Disrupt their formed charge with stakes, pikemen, javelins, crossbow/archer fire, or something very simple:

Charge the formed charge with your own cavalry (whatever pathetic grade.) Then, the two cavalry units will be stuck in melee until the computer withdraws. Then you can:

Send in armour-piercing axemen,
throw a hail of javelins,
send in a bunch of spearmen,
even swordsmen will do.

ANYTHING with a high "attack" rating. Billmen... double handed weapons. As long as they have high attack, outnumber the stuck horsemen, and can pierce armour (not even technically required), they will massacre the horsemen. if the enemy horsemen try to escape, run after them with yours, and keep up with your anti-cavalry infantry I named above. Your horsemen will kill other horsemen who are running away (especially if they are light cavalry) and if they turn to melee your light cavalry, send in more javelins, axemen, spearmen... Their morale will crumble, their numbers dwindle, and their formed charge is useless. In melee, they die when surrounded by massed high-attack infantry.

[Ratwar]

As people have already said, the English have plenty of anti-calvary weapons, especially in the form of longbows. Stakes will slaughter any calvary units (including your own so be careful).

Personally, if I don't have the option of stakes, a use a two fold strategy for dealing with calvary. If they open the battle with a calvary charge (which is almost always straight up the middle), I let my bowmen absorb the attack. They'll suffer about 50% casualties, if not more, but the calvary will be in a melee situation in front of your entire army. Plus they either be totally unsupported or (in an even better situation for you) their own troops will keep them from withdrawing.

Now if they hold off on using their calvary in the beginning, you can use your archers to slim down their numbers. Then once they commit their calvary, your own can immediately counter their attack.

[TheLastPrivate]

Due to animation related issues billmen still suck, best bet is to concentrate missile fire, then pin it with your own heavy cavalry. Merc spears work as well if you need to fill in the gaps when fighting cavalry-heavy armies.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Due to animation related issues billmen still suck, best bet is to concentrate missile fire, then pin it with your own heavy cavalry. Merc spears work as well if you need to fill in the gaps when fighting cavalry-heavy armies.

I had better luck during a Kingdoms campaign. Did they fix them?

I was facing a terrible battle of attrition. I had a huge garrison of some 1,080 English militia, archers, cavalry, etc. Easy win, but losses would be high.

I had recruited some 3 units of English Billmen as Ireland... I used artillery to smash the walls and gates and force them back to the town square. Now, the dirty work. I sent in my billmen and they tore through those militia men like butter. I ended up getting less than 200 casualties, and the billmen were only depleted by 1/2.

I nearly peed my pants with ecstacy, but I decided to relieve myself on the dead corpses of Englishmen who were foolish enough to oppose me.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Interesting, Ratwar.

If I might suggest, bowmen are good, because you can set them to skirmish mode and run away, that helps break up charges. Others, like javelins are also effective in skirmish mode. it's difficult to get a formed charge going against a mobile enemy. However, I feel you might be taking too many unnecessary casualties.

(Listen to me, I'm becoming an old softie... caring about my troops? WTH?)

I can deal with some militia or worthless infantry casualties, because that's basically what they are for. Keeping my heavier infantry, archers, and artillery from being caught by mounted units, so I don't have to send them back to my homelands for retraining. I can always hire whatever infantry and mercenaries as meat shields wherever I am on campaign, no need to return home for top units.

But I believe good, powerful, professional archers, artillery, and heavy infantry need to be guarded. And even in the example where you can disrupt a formed charge with other cavalry, it would not be a melee engagement to the death. The infantry would rush in behind them and destroy what's left of them. They flee and get destroyed by light cavalry lances, javelins, and arrows. Protect the skilled members of your military at all costs.

If not with light or melee cavalry, then definitley use the less skilled meat shields you can recruit while on campaign... peasants, peasant archers perhaps, mercenary spearmen, mercenary crossbows. Pikemen are the best, but they are worthless against anything but cavalry, and for defending your city from seige armies. You can't make a greek army of pikemen versus gunpowder, archers, horse archers, and heavy cavalry in the open field. And heavy infantry just destroys them.

Be flexible, be economical, and use worthless infantry if you're going to meatshield. Remember that light cavalry is quicker, more maneuverable, and perfect for blocking formed charges. And they are easy to recruit and ship towards the front lines, especially with a drillmaster general. Try to reduce casualties from unnecessary formed charges, unnecessary heavy infantry melee situations, unnecessary archer fire, unnecessary artillery fire.

Identify the largest threat to your soldier's lives. Artillery and archers are both devastating in seiges, cavalry is more devastating in the field. Deflect their most destructive abilities with smart tactics. Use artillery of your own in seiges for offense and defense, and your own archers and cavalry, perhaps, for defense in seiges. Use pikemen and heavy infantry for street fighting and wear them down faster than they wear you down.

In the field, deflect formed charges, destroy their cavalry, and attempt to make their archers and artillery rout or flee with your own cavalry. Avoid direct confrontations with enemy infantry unless you're sure the melee will be brief, or you can outflank and charge them, or if you've already weakened them with archer fire so they rout.

Also be sure to destroy the enemy general if he is alone, as your top priority, as soon as it's feasible. Routing units don't fight very effectively. Keep some fast horses to mop up the mess and imprison, ransom, or execute, or even release them for your benefits. Fewer casualties means less time wasted on campaign waiting for retraining, reinforcements, or retreating. Fewer casualties means you can fight more consecutive battles without weakening. It can mean the difference between holding the line against an enemy assault, or your entire border crumbling.

It can mean your invasion into Germany continues, or fails. Every fallen soldier is one you have to replace.

[Ratwar]

Interesting, Ratwar.

If I might suggest, bowmen are good, because you can set them to skirmish mode and run away, that helps break up charges. Others, like javelins are also effective in skirmish mode. it's difficult to get a formed charge going against a mobile enemy. However, I feel you might be taking too many unnecessary casualties.

(Listen to me, I'm becoming an old softie... caring about my troops? WTH?)

Yes, that would be the 'perfect' way to set up the defense, and I often pull that type of thing off, but not every time (I have this addiction to 'just one more volley'). Besides, I tend to see skirmish mode as very bugged. For some reason my archers like to run sideways instead of backward. So I tend to do it manually, which causes problems with timing. I should also note that the 50% casualties is usually limited to 1 unit, and if your playing as England you'll usually have so many Longbows (because they're awesome) that half a unit isn't that important.

(Apparently I'm just heartless).