The Islam Thread...

[AlexanderSextus]

I didnt post the verses from the quran and hadiths in order to slander islam, i posted them so i could see what counterpoints would be presented by muslim orgahs.

oh, and i got the quotes from www.thereligionofpeace.com...I thought it was an Anti-Islam site when i first came upon it but i read their faq, which says that the entire purpose of the site is that they, and i quote; "...just want the killing to stop." Also, all the stuff i posted had links that showed exactly where out of the quran or hadiths they got it from. The links bring you to an online quran at http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/.

Seriously...its not a hate site. They said this:

"Thousands of people are losing their lives, and tens of thousands more are suffering various and egregious physical injuries because the Qur'an says that non-Muslims are hated by Allah and that violence is sanctioned whenever there is resistance to Islamic dominance. Exposing this teaching and documenting its terrible effects does not make us a hate site.

We are very explicit in stating that it is wrong to stereotype or pre-judge Muslim individuals, much less to harass or harm them. But, we also do not believe that the delicate and petulant sensibilities of members of the Religion of Peace have precedence over the awful violence committed in its name each and every day."

[Fragony]

But, we also do not believe that the delicate and petulant sensibilities of members of the Religion of Peace have precedence over the awful violence committed in its name each and every day."

Lol said it exactly the same this very thread, yep, please forgive us westeners for noticing it.

[Tristuskhan]

www.thereligionofpeace.com

This site gives me headaches.... Lots of features are really odd. It seems rather unreliable. Some native english speaker should investigate.

A good source about Islam is Abelwahab Meddeb, a franco-tunisian scholar who has a fine vision of Islam, both of it's religious evolution and political issues, but everything I found about him is in french. The reform some were talking about on previous posts is already growing, but the voices are scarce and hard to hear.

[Hax]

AlexanderSextus, you have no real experience when it comes to Muslims. Your fear comes through ignorance, not by knowing a few verses. If you did know any true muslims, your view would change significantly. Also, I think you are looking at the wrong sites, as they are clearly biased.

Concerning the Hell in Islam:

One day will He gather them all together, (and say): "O ye assembly of Jinns! Much (toll) did ye take of men." Their friends amongst men will say: "Our Lord! we made profit from each other: but (alas!) we reached our term - which thou didst appoint for us." He will say: "The Fire be your dwelling-place: you will dwell therein for ever, except as Allah willeth." for thy Lord is full of wisdom and knowledge."

This is considered to be very important, seeing that in Christianity, the Hell is a place where you will stay until all eternity to suffer and burn and scream and choke until forever and ever.

[Tribesman]

Site's blocked here...

Is it one of those that is widely blocked for being a hate site by any chance Just like a whole pile of those on its links section are widely blocked as hate sites .

Seriously...its not a hate site. They said this:

Yeah and North Korea is a peoples paradise and democratic country because they say so

[AlexanderSextus]

Is it one of those that is widely blocked for being a hate site by any chance Just like a whole pile of those on its links section are widely blocked as hate sites .


Yeah and North Korea is a peoples paradise and democratic country because they say so

Let me repost it one more time.

"Thousands of people are losing their lives, and tens of thousands more are suffering various and egregious physical injuries because the Qur'an says that non-Muslims are hated by Allah and that violence is sanctioned whenever there is resistance to Islamic dominance. Exposing this teaching and documenting its terrible effects does not make us a hate site.

We are very explicit in stating that it is wrong to stereotype or pre-judge Muslim individuals, much less to harass or harm them. But, we also do not believe that the delicate and petulant sensibilities of members of the Religion of Peace have precedence over the awful violence committed in its name each and every day."


The site even states that it is STRONGLY AGAINST hate towards muslims.

One of the parts of their FAQ is as follows:

What opinions should I form about my Muslim neighbor,
co-worker or friend from your site?

Absolutely none.

Judge a person only by his or her own words and deeds - and nothing else.

(Actually, this isn't a question that we've ever been asked, but we did want to reinforce the point that every Muslim is an individual and shouldn't be thought differently of merely because of their religion).

[AlexanderSextus]

oh, and fahad, the violent parts are these verses...look them up in your home copy, maybe you can tell me if i'm taking them out of context.

Sura (2:191-193)

Sura (8:15)

Sura (9:29)

Sura (9:30)

Sura (25:52) apparently, when this verse says "Strive against" it is talking about Jihad, and not the spiritual one either.

Hadiths:

Bukhari (52:177)

Muslim (1:33)

Muslim (20:4645)

Tabari 7:97

[Paradox]

oh, and fahad, the violent parts are these verses...look them up in your home copy, maybe you can tell me if i'm taking them out of context.

Sura (2:191-193)

Sura (8:15)

Sura (9:29)

Sura (9:30)

Sura (25:52) apparently, when this verse says "Strive against" it is talking about Jihad, and not the spiritual one either.

1. These verses basically say: Fight back. Nothing wrong with it, the message here is to not leave the religion of Islam vulnerable to those who are against it.

2. Irrelevant, it talks about respect in the mosque.

3. (9:18) I can see how this part can be taken out of context. A long time ago, Muslims were often killed by non-believers, strangely, they sometimes got away with it if they pay a tax. When they don't, that's where the violence starts. It also says that those who do not believe in god are enemies of god, did you not already know this?

4. I'm having a hard time translating this one, there are some big words used in the Qur'an that we don't use today, like latin. I'll ask someone to translate it later. It probably refers to the Arab Polytheists who were against Islam.

[HoreTore]

Yes, AlexanderSextus, it's not a hate site because they say so, just like North Korea is democratic because they say so.



In the real world however, North Korea is a brutal tyranny, and that site is a perfect example of hate. Anyway, Tribesey can explain it to you a lot better(and funnier) than I care to do

[AlexanderSextus]

AlexanderSextus, you have no real experience when it comes to Muslims. Your fear comes through ignorance, not by knowing a few verses. If you did know any true muslims, your view would change significantly. Also, I think you are looking at the wrong sites, as they are clearly biased.

Concerning the Hell in Islam:

One day will He gather them all together, (and say): "O ye assembly of Jinns! Much (toll) did ye take of men." Their friends amongst men will say: "Our Lord! we made profit from each other: but (alas!) we reached our term - which thou didst appoint for us." He will say: "The Fire be your dwelling-place: you will dwell therein for ever, except as Allah willeth." for thy Lord is full of wisdom and knowledge."

This is considered to be very important, seeing that in Christianity, the Hell is a place where you will stay until all eternity to suffer and burn and scream and choke until forever and ever.

Not Necessarily.... apparently, the Gospel of Peter (which is one the vatican conveniently chose to leave out) says that all the inhabitants of hell will be freed if the inhabitants of heaven will ask god to release them.

To scrutinize certain points of doctrine or tradition in a religion is also something that should be tolerated.

Like I said, I do know true muslims. Some of them are my best friends. Like that guy Ibrahim that i talked about earlier...I go to Kung Fu class with him every week. It's not them i'm worried about. its the violent parts of the Quran that they are supposed to live by.

If i am taking the verses out of context, then please explain what i have misinterpreted.

Sure, the site may or may not be biased, but whos to say that if i went to a site that said the quran was not at all violent, that it would'nt also be biased???


If i post something Biased towards a particular view, like what i posted earlier, it's because i want you to prove it wrong, next time i'll remember to say that, as i almost pissed some people off it seems.

[Tribesman]

If i am taking the verses out of context, then please explain what i have misinterpreted.

Ah I see , lets put this in simple terms , that site and many on its links page use quotes and translations from a very eminent scholar of Islam . It really makes their sites seem well established in fact and thoroughly researched .
Yet they never quote what his actual conclusions are , only the bits that they can take and use to push their message .
And the conclusion of this scholar whose work they are so fond of selectively using ..... terrorism can only be justified under the teachings of Islam by mistranslation , taking out of context and misrepresentation of those teachings .
So what you are posting as "reliable" information is actually not just a misrepresentation , it is a misrepresentation of a misrepresentation .
Now in my book that doesn't mean that what you have posted is just bollox , its a whole big pile of bollox
edit to add ..BTW did you realise that some of those links are actually to terrorist supporting sites , not Muslim terrorists of course but terrorists who claim to be followers of other religions .

[Tribesman]

Let me repost it one more time.

"Thousands of people are losing their lives, and tens of thousands more are suffering various and egregious physical injuries because the Qur'an says that non-Muslims are hated by Allah and that violence is sanctioned whenever there is resistance to Islamic dominance. Exposing this teaching and documenting its terrible effects does not make us a hate site.

Oh dear
Stop it please
you are killing me

Have you even stopped to consider how all that tripe you cut and pasted was instantly identified ?
Religion of Peace , Jihad watch , Dhimmi watch and Prophet of doom have been thoroughly trashed and debunked on this forum so many times its quite comical when someone still tries to cite them as a source of information.