Shooting over the front ranks

**duncan.gill** · 08-29-2008, 00:32

Is this a viable strategy? Do you loose more of your own guys being hit in the back than causing damage on the enemy? Does it work with archers (given the difference in the flight of the missles). Any tips?

**Apgad** · 08-29-2008, 00:58

It can work, but you need to get your spacing right. Doing it with javelins and arrows is safer than slingers, but it can be done. If you can get them elevated slightly that's certainly an advantage, but having them on too steep a slope can be a bad thing!

I'd suggest turning off auto-fire so that they don't try to shoot units that are fighting your infantry. Go for units further back that have not yet engaged. This can take a bit of micro-managing, but it's better than losing half of your own guys!

**Aemilius Paulus** · 08-29-2008, 01:54

Usually, the javelins don't hurt the men in the front ranks. Arrows do but, like Apgat said, you have to get the spacing right. As for slingers, put them about three Principe lines (yeah, I kinda made up the measurement, just remember it's the width of the Principe unit, not the length) behind the men in the front and make sure that they are not shooting when the enemy comes close or else friendly fire is going to hurt you. Also, don't make the slingers shoot at units below them when you have your units in front of slingers. Remember, it's all about the trajectory. Slingers have a very low, straight trajectory. Even by following these rules you'll probably get 3-4 casualties. However, in a usual 1:1 strength ratio battle, I lose about 3-9(maximum) men to friendly fire and kill about 40-60 % of the enemy (especially in city battles, where the enemy is not coming at you, where you could shoot over or from walls). A fair trade I daresay, especially since it is difficult to put the missiles in the front without losing some of them. Behind the lines, in relative safety, the slingers can do their deadly and efficient work without the worry of being disturbed or interrupted!

**Centurio Nixalsverdrus** · 08-29-2008, 03:08

I always deploy my missiles behind the heavier guys. There are a few easy rules you have to obey:

1. Slingers and archers should be placed more than the depth of their own, loose formation behind the heavy infantry ranks. You won't get any casualties then.

2. You can leave fire at will active. To my experience, they do not shoot at enemies that are fighting your front ranks at the moment. However, if it gets too hot, turn fire at will off.

3. If the enemy already routs, and your horsies are hunting them down, don't forget to disable fire at will, or else your cute horses will suffer.

4. Often, casualties inflicted by friendly fire get healed more often than not.

5. What leads us to the conclusion that there is no reason to deploy your poor missile guys in the fray in front of your sarissas.

**satalexton** · 08-29-2008, 03:18

well, that little bit of extra range before the armies collide does help....

**Aemilius Paulus** · 08-29-2008, 03:56

My favorite strategy with slingers in an open-field battle is to let a single enemy unit to march towards me (when the AI is outnumbered and attacked, it does not attack as a whole, but for some reason sends out single units to attack you), determine which one of my units is targeted by the enemy by looking at the direction the hostile unit is moving and then order the unit that is being targeted to run away from the slowly advancing adversary. This causes AI to break off the attack and return to its original position. In order to do this, the AI exposes its soldier's backs, which is when I order my Accensi/Balearics/Iaosatae to unleash their volleys of leaden/stone hail. I know some people might scream "that's cheating!!!" but I simply call it taking advantage of the AI. Plus, it saves my soldier's precious lives.

**tapanojum** · 08-29-2008, 08:36

Originally Posted by Aemilius Paulus

I know some people might scream "that's cheating!!!" but I simply call it taking advantage of the AI.

lmao, my first thought of comparing that after reading that was.

"Some people might scream "That's rape", but I simply call it taking advantage of the woman"

**Chris1959** · 08-29-2008, 08:44

I find that you'll suffer more loses to "friendly fire" when the enemy routs and you have fire at will on. It seems that when a unit routs it's fair game for missle troops even if your troops are pursuing, I usually try to halt infantry and keep cavalry out of the line of fire especially slingers I've know cavalry losses really mount when they were pursuing and the culprit? My own slingers.

**konny** · 08-29-2008, 11:33

Originally Posted by Centurio Nixalsverdrus

2. You can leave fire at will active. To my experience, they do not shoot at enemies that are fighting your front ranks at the moment. However, if it gets too hot, turn fire at will off.

3. If the enemy already routs, and your horsies are hunting them down, don't forget to disable fire at will, or else your cute horses will suffer.

That's correct: Missile units under "fire at will" do not shoot at enemies that are in hand-to-hand combat with one of your units, unless you have ordered them to. This does not apply to rouing enemies, even when units of yours are cutting them down.

**bovi** · 08-29-2008, 14:14

Well, they will avoid shooting as long as any soldier is in contact. But those who stay in contact die really quickly and the rest get out of touch really quickly. So the second noone is in contact, the missile troops decide to shoot at the point where they used to be, which is now the place where your guys are. It's actually a good thing when a single unit routs while the rest stay to fight, as your guys won't follow into the line of fire, but when the whole line routs it's bad. So it's buggy, but you can make it work by removing fire at will when the battle line is joined and rather choose your target.

Edit: I think that in MTW missile units would stop shooting at fleeing enemies, which may be a good thing. At least it's more in touch with the medieval chivalry.

**Ezephkiel** · 08-29-2008, 18:42

I stongly advise not to use the 4 span arrow projectors directly behind men (unless you're on a hill and they have a height advange)

My pioneering greek general who was using them got one up his back side, oddly it only killed him out of his 60 man body guard, oh the irony.

**tapanojum** · 08-29-2008, 20:34

Originally Posted by Ezephkiel

I stongly advise not to use the 4 span arrow projectors directly behind men (unless you're on a hill and they have a height advange)

My pioneering greek general who was using them got one up his back side, oddly it only killed him out of his 60 man body guard, oh the irony.

I had the exact same thing happen with a cannon. My KH general was holding the alley on guard mode with arrow/cannon artillery behind him.

Rather than shoot over him, one of the cannons ran directly up his ass