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I definitely applaud their intent. The question is, will it (hopefully) spread?
I definitely applaud their intent. The question is, will it (hopefully) spread?
Originally Posted by :
The Gamer's Bill of Rights:
1) Gamers shall have the right to return games that don't work with their computers for a full refund.
2) Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.
3) Gamers shall have the right to expect meaningful updates after a game's release.
4) Gamers shall have the right to demand that download managers and updaters not force themselves to run or be forced to load in order to play a game.
5) Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will play adequately on that computer.
6) Gamers shall have the right to expect that games won't install hidden drivers or other potentially harmful software without their consent.
7) Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time.
8) Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers.
9) Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play.
10) Gamers shall have the right that games which are installed to the hard drive shall not require a CD/DVD to remain in the drive to play.
The Gamer's Bill of Rights:
1) Gamers shall have the right to return games that don't work with their computers for a full refund.
2) Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.
3) Gamers shall have the right to expect meaningful updates after a game's release.
4) Gamers shall have the right to demand that download managers and updaters not force themselves to run or be forced to load in order to play a game.
5) Gamers shall have the right to expect that the minimum requirements for a game will mean that the game will play adequately on that computer.
6) Gamers shall have the right to expect that games won't install hidden drivers or other potentially harmful software without their consent.
7) Gamers shall have the right to re-download the latest versions of the games they own at any time.
8) Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers.
9) Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play.
10) Gamers shall have the right that games which are installed to the hard drive shall not require a CD/DVD to remain in the drive to play.
That's one nice list. The points 6, 8, 9 and 10 are the most likely to rock the videogame industry boat.
If gamers start spreading this on forums, and the press refer to it during interviews and such (if they can), then the developpers will have to take it in consideration.
Let's hope it takes. Stardock is one of the best companies out there, if only for their stance vis-à-vis the customer.
If gamers start spreading this on forums, and the press refer to it during interviews and such (if they can), then the developpers will have to take it in consideration.
Let's hope it takes. Stardock is one of the best companies out there, if only for their stance vis-à-vis the customer.
That's very very nice and decent of them. It makes me want to go where these people are, find out the guy who came up with the idea, and give him a hug for being so thoughtful. Specially in times like this when most other developers are going for draconian copy protection software and other stuff like the frequent call-home thing.
I fear however, that this won't really have any effect. The gamers might cheer Stardock, but I doubt the other developers would do anything of this kind anytime soon. It's a shame really............
I fear however, that this won't really have any effect. The gamers might cheer Stardock, but I doubt the other developers would do anything of this kind anytime soon. It's a shame really............
I bought Sins Of A Solar Empire in part because they didn't use any obnoxious DRM.
An excellent list indeed and I would like to see some of the really major companies sign onto this as well. I am curious as to how #1 would be enforced though - the stores set pricing.
Well, that's it: you buy a game at a store, you return it there, I guess.
If you've got a Peugeot car, you're not going to Nissan to get it fixed, right?
If you've got a Peugeot car, you're not going to Nissan to get it fixed, right?
Still can't see #1 as practical, especially in the light of #10-- what's to prevent the gamer from installing the game, claiming it doesn't work, returning it, and in consequence playing the game for free?
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I applaud Stardock.
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I applaud Stardock.
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Originally Posted by Warmaster Horus:
Well, that's it: you buy a game at a store, you return it there, I guess.
If you've got a Peugeot car, you're not going to Nissan to get it fixed, right?
Yeah but he Company isn't told what to do with their returns policy. They set their own. The store I work at has very tough restrictions on what you can and can't bring back and what condition it must be in.Well, that's it: you buy a game at a store, you return it there, I guess.
If you've got a Peugeot car, you're not going to Nissan to get it fixed, right?
Originally Posted by Quirinus:
Still can't see #1 as practical, especially in the light of #10-- what's to prevent the gamer from installing the game, claiming it doesn't work, returning it, and in consequence playing the game for free?
They cover that with "No gamer shall be treated as a potential criminal". I know I wouldn't be returning my games in this way - would you?Still can't see #1 as practical, especially in the light of #10-- what's to prevent the gamer from installing the game, claiming it doesn't work, returning it, and in consequence playing the game for free?
Originally Posted by CA:
Yeah but he Company isn't told what to do with their returns policy. They set their own. The store I work at has very tough restrictions on what you can and can't bring back and what condition it must be in.
D'oh. Well, I guess it does depend on the store directly selling the game.Yeah but he Company isn't told what to do with their returns policy. They set their own. The store I work at has very tough restrictions on what you can and can't bring back and what condition it must be in.
A very good and decent thing of them to do. I should buy one of their games.
CR
CR
They're right though, I skipped Bioshock and Mass Effect because of the DRM.
I've been meaning to buy something from them for years, I really ought to now. So Sins of a solar empire or galactic civilizations ?
I've been meaning to buy something from them for years, I really ought to now. So Sins of a solar empire or galactic civilizations ?
Originally Posted by doc_bean:
I've been meaning to buy something from them for years, I really ought to now. So Sins of a solar empire or galactic civilizations ?
Depends. If you played and enjoyed Homeworld, then you'll probably like Sins. If the idea of Civilization in space appeals to you more, then I'd go with GalCiv 2. You really can't go wrong either way, though. I've been meaning to buy something from them for years, I really ought to now. So Sins of a solar empire or galactic civilizations ?
Originally Posted by doc_bean:
They're right though, I skipped Bioshock and Mass Effect because of the DRM.
I also refused to buy either because of the DRM. They're right though, I skipped Bioshock and Mass Effect because of the DRM.
Originally Posted by :
I've been meaning to buy something from them for years, I really ought to now. So Sins of a solar empire or galactic civilizations ?
Do you prefer real-time strategy or turn-based? Both are good, but I think I prefer GalCiv2 more.I've been meaning to buy something from them for years, I really ought to now. So Sins of a solar empire or galactic civilizations ?
Another cool-looking game that Stardock will be publishing is Demigod.
Ten points, make it part of the rating of every game site that agrees with this idea.
It scored Nine out of Ten on the Gamers Rights Rating!
I'm just waiting for Penny Arcade to do something like this.
It scored Nine out of Ten on the Gamers Rights Rating!
I'm just waiting for Penny Arcade to do something like this.
Good ideas, but it sadly wont take off. Publishers desire money more than rights of gamers.
Originally Posted by CountArach:
They cover that with "No gamer shall be treated as a potential criminal". I know I wouldn't be returning my games in this way - would you?
I wouldn't. But you can bet many people will. That's kinda like putting your wares on a busy street with a little tin box that says "$9.99 per copy, pay here please".They cover that with "No gamer shall be treated as a potential criminal". I know I wouldn't be returning my games in this way - would you?
doc_bean: "Civilization-in-space" pretty much describes GalCiv II, get GalCiv I for a slightly different flavour. It's going pretty cheap now, I think.
Originally Posted by Kekvit Irae:
Good ideas, but it sadly wont take off. Publishers desire money more than rights of gamers.
.Good ideas, but it sadly wont take off. Publishers desire money more than rights of gamers.
Coal mine owners did too. But labour rights were eventually achieved.
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Originally Posted by Mouzafphaerre:
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Coal mine owners did too. But labour rights were eventually achieved.
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We need a gamer's union .
Coal mine owners did too. But labour rights were eventually achieved.
.
Originally Posted by :
I wouldn't. But you can bet many people will. That's kinda like putting your wares on a busy street with a little tin box that says "$9.99 per copy, pay here please".
Oh yeah, I know there are people who would rought the system, which is why we are in the situation we are in now. I just don't know how to fix it.I wouldn't. But you can bet many people will. That's kinda like putting your wares on a busy street with a little tin box that says "$9.99 per copy, pay here please".
Their model has been pretty successful. Both GalCiv1 & 2 sold very well and Sins of a Solar Empire was a top 10 seller for quite a long time iirc.
Originally Posted by Mouzafphaerre:
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Coal mine owners did too. But labour rights were eventually achieved.
I'm pretty sure the two are worlds different. People died working in the coal mines, but you don't see people dying working in GameStops. .
Coal mine owners did too. But labour rights were eventually achieved.
Originally Posted by Kekvit Irae:
I'm pretty sure the two are worlds different. People died working in the coal mines, but you don't see people dying working in GameStops.
I'm pretty sure the two are worlds different. People died working in the coal mines, but you don't see people dying working in GameStops.
Nice list btw, it'd be nice to see every company adopt similar ideas.
Originally Posted by Kekvit Irae:
I'm pretty sure the two are worlds different. People died working in the coal mines, but you don't see people dying working in GameStops.
A few Koreans would like to beg to differ... but they died for the ultimate sacrifice... that of any hope of being considered cool by playing Starcraft until their internal organs failed and they died at the desk. I'm pretty sure the two are worlds different. People died working in the coal mines, but you don't see people dying working in GameStops.
Rather than start a separate thread, I decided to just add to this one. Here's part 1 of an interview with Brad Wardell (President of Stardock), in which he outlines some of the steps he's taking in an effort to reform/revitalize the PC gaming industry.
What I find remarkable is that apparently his ideas have actually found some traction with other publishers, including Microsoft. Here's hoping that he can affect the change that PC gaming so desperately needs!
What I find remarkable is that apparently his ideas have actually found some traction with other publishers, including Microsoft. Here's hoping that he can affect the change that PC gaming so desperately needs!
Quick! Someone make an idol of him! Put it next to your computer, and give thanks for men in power like him every time you load up a DRM free product.
In regards to #1 its relatively easy to circumvent this rule.
1. Always keep your receipt after the purchase
2. Open the game like you usually do
3. If it doesn't work return it (almost every place can only refund you for the same game if the box has been opened)
4. Get an unopened copy of the game
5. Throw out the refund receipt
6. Return at a later date or after the person's shift is over
7. Refund the unopened copy with the Original Receipt
8. Get your money back.
or Buy a Lamenator.. I picked one up at a garage sale for 20 bucks, works wonders.
1. Always keep your receipt after the purchase
2. Open the game like you usually do
3. If it doesn't work return it (almost every place can only refund you for the same game if the box has been opened)
4. Get an unopened copy of the game
5. Throw out the refund receipt
6. Return at a later date or after the person's shift is over
7. Refund the unopened copy with the Original Receipt
8. Get your money back.
or Buy a Lamenator.. I picked one up at a garage sale for 20 bucks, works wonders.
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