Any professional Historians/Archaeologists on the EB Team? Some questions . . .

[Artorius Maximus]

Hello!

First of all, I would like to start off by giving my opinion of the Europa Barbarorum modification. In my opinion, it is the greatest, most detailed, and most historically accurate Rome: Total War mod. It certainly is what Rome: Total War should have been (minus the lag/low FPS of course, no offense).

Now, onto my question, are there any professional historians, archaeologists, college professors, or teachers in the EB team?

The main reason I ask, is because I want to know your opinion on me possibly pursuing the academic route of history (mostly ancient/medieval), and if it's a fairly easy or demanding career. Also, what exactly are the options for a history major? Let's just say I have a Master's Degree in History and Classics. What are the feasible possibilities? I'm a college student at the moment, and I would appreciate any help.

-Artorius Maximus

[cmacq]

A Master's, and this question is asked? As far as archaeology is concerned, to a great extent it depends on your temperament, resilience, flexibility, and financial/social goals in life. Modern archaeology is extremely regimented, in more than professional practice, and not always in a good way. Also as with academia in general, in archaeology (both academic and contract) one may note a pervasive air of exploitation and predation. Very interesting indeed, yet many very unsavory characters abound, and simply its just not everyone's cup of tea. Myself, if you've not heeded the call by this date, I might not recommend this challenging and often demanding path.


Hope this helps.


CmacQ

[Artorius Maximus]

I actually don't have a Master's, or any degree for that matter. I was just raising the question that if I do, which path should I take? I just started college for the first time September 2.

Thanks for the post too! Are you an archaeologist? Where are you doing digs at?

P.S. I know that real archaeology is nothing like Indiana Jones' portrayal of it . . . so I sort of know what type of job to expect here.

[cmacq]

Indeed, however there is far more to archaeology than digging. By digs I assume you mean on what offical projects I’m currently working. Sorry, I can't share that with you, other than it has to do with mine reclamation and an aspect of public safety. However, there are several unoffical irons in the fire, as well.




CmacQ

[||Lz3||]

he's digging UFOs for the CIA...

oh crap now we know too much...

[blitzkrieg80]

that might not be too far from the truth- he has mentioned specialization in the Southwest on occaison "but it's a dry-heat!"

[cmacq]

Actually, I have a friend that did work on the archaeological crew that surveyed Area 51, back in the 80s. No mention of ETs, and no, the foremost project I’m working on now is extremely mundane, but as I work for the government certain precautions must be observed. There is after all an indirectly related and ever present safety issue. As commentary, of course institutional reports as such, may have little trouble finding fault, but often have significant problems telling the truth. It may be clear that a huge chunk of the public means will soon disappear down yet another rat hole. A bit harsh as if it were up to me, I would let the cards fall where they may, but its not. So, I serve the public interest, and in return more important pursuits suffer for lack of attention, although I redouble my efforts.


CmacQ

[Moros]

The problem with studying history is that if you have your degree you most probably won't be doing research or something afterwards. Most likely you'll teach history, a certain amount gets work in banks and insurance companies and only a lucky few will be able to put their degree to real use.

What college year are you in and what is it you study?

[Gaivs]

"but it's a dry-heat!"

Was that a Dream Theater reference on the off chance?

[Artorius Maximus]

The problem with studying history is that if you have your degree you most probably won't be doing research or something afterwards. Most likely you'll teach history, a certain amount gets work in banks and insurance companies and only a lucky few will be able to put their degree to real use.

What college year are you in and what is it you study?

I'm in my first year of college. I'm at a junior/community college right now, but in a year, I will transfer to a larger university. I study History, Political Science, English, Music, and Humanities at the moment.

[blitzkrieg80]

Cmacq, you know I always figured you were digging at Native American sites based on the juicy clues you've left... of course, coming from Nevada where mines and Native American sites is all there is really (besides dirt, rock and more 'dry-heat' -Aliens btw, although Dream Theatre rocks), i am kind of biased. I sort of figure there is no reason to be in the Southwest unless one is an archaeologist sorry all yous peoples- it's a freaking desert (which means you shouldn't be stealing water from elsewhere)! similarly I don't move to the 'lowlands' of the USA and wonder why it's flooding. also, I live where there are Tornados and I look foward to riding one, as the natural course of things go..

anyways, back to the point- am I wrong? do you never do Native American archaeological digs, ect. ? i am guessing if you're done with those assignments you can speak more freely but if you wish to not implicate yourself for all the stalkers about, I def. would understand...

[russia almighty]

I've always found that weird. With the arts, your colleagues seem to care way too much about your personal lives. In the sciences, you help your chem buddy synthesize a more powerful version of LSD.

[Dutchhoplite]

I can't agree with Moros more. I studied history for 7 years and i couldn't find work in the field and now i work in some company's archive which is very frustrating at times

Still: fascinating study :)

[cmacq]

Cmacq, you know I always figured you were digging at Native American sites based on the juicy clues you've left... of course, coming from Nevada where mines and Native American sites is all there is really (besides dirt, rock and more 'dry-heat' -Aliens btw, although Dream Theatre rocks), i am kind of biased. I sort of figure there is no reason to be in the Southwest unless one is an archaeologist sorry all yous peoples- it's a freaking desert (which means you shouldn't be stealing water from elsewhere)! similarly I don't move to the 'lowlands' of the USA and wonder why it's flooding. also, I live where there are Tornados and I look foward to riding one, as the natural course of things go..

anyways, back to the point- am I wrong? do you never do Native American archaeological digs, ect. ? i am guessing if you're done with those assignments you can speak more freely but if you wish to not implicate yourself for all the stalkers about, I def. would understand...

Mostly Salado and Hohokam, with some work at Patayan, Anasazi, and Mogollon sites, and a little archaic, proto-historic (O'odham, Pai, and Apache), and historic; such as it is. As each is somewhat interrelated, I specialize in community and settlement structural and functional analysis, architecture, ceramics, and demographic analysis. I also was forced to develop a good working knowledge of chronometrics. When in the contract world I worked on at least 11 major excavation projects and about 45 minor projects (the use of ‘digs’ is considered somewhat passé by many). As I feel little need to update my resume, it’s a bit difficult to remember every one.

Plus there were a number of side projects. However, I do recall about half of the minor projects did not involve excavations. Right, I’ve also been involved in a number of large scale archeological surveys. Some may note, I’m known to say ‘that’s nice’ and point out that a newbie is standing in the mist of thousands of artifacts when they come running with a newly discovered single sherd, for an excited look see. I think some may honour me with ‘Dream Crusher.’ As a side project I’m also working on an absolutely enormous archaeological survey that incorporates a huge chunk of excavation data recovered over the last 70 years, which is being integrated with GIS. Because of the detailed fieldwork and the method used to organize and address this information we are learning things impossible by conventional means. Although the potential is great and may prove revolutionary as a method of understanding the past, this of course is an unofficial project.

In my present posting, maybe 60 minor projects and about 10 major projects, mostly surveys with a few salvage excavations, and one large scale testing project that lasted several years. I sometimes have to do historic archaeology, as in the current case. Congress in its infinite wisdom decided 42 years prior that all archaeology was historic, and since the US has a dearth of such, anything 50 years or older is historic. Soon the NHP Act (said Nahpra) itself will be historic. As a whale in a rowboat, the prehistoric stuff was only tacked on as an after thought.

Blitz did you get my PM? I’m interested to see how you addressed the EBII Lugi stuff.

CmacQ

[Jorduan]

that sounds very interesting stuff cmacq.. .

Artorius Maximus: I recently graduated from the University of Liverpool with a degree in Egyptian Archaeology... But this is by no means a ticket for me to obtain archaeological work... I think as Blitzkrieg was implying - archaelogical prospects are dependant upon location in a big way...

either way good luck!

[flamingcookbook]

i'm doing a history phd on thirteenth century politics and robin hood. it's relatively easy, since no one has read all the primary sources and so there's lots of ignored info. if you do medieval, make sure to learn the latin.

I wanted to be an archaeologist, but was put off by the:

1) snobbery.

2) bias towards learning about building foundations and tomb contents.

3) continual bias towards the Eastern Mediterranean and nothing else.

4) continual bias that `true history' is not to be found in contemporary chronicles but building foundations. (vomit)

Just remember, if you are a historian, you have greater flexibility, and you can do classics/archaeology work also. If you're an archaeologist, you're pretty much limited to building foundations, or temples, but usually the said foundations. It's not about history, more architecture and art.

There is a third path, classics. you just learn ancient history without the emphasis on mummies.

[Thaatu]

4) continual bias that `true history' is not to be found in contemporary chronicles but building foundations. (vomit)

Building foundations don't lie, while contemporary chronicles almost certainly do in some aspects. It's not that written sources can't be trusted at all, but that archaeological evidence can have a very different view. A cooperation between archaeological and written evidence probably leads closest that we can get to "truth".

If you're an archaeologist, you're pretty much limited to building foundations, or temples, but usually the said foundations. It's not about history, more architecture and art.

It's also waste dumps and such, which may not sound very glamorous, but it certainly reflects upon the day to day lives the inhabitants of a settlement had. Architecture and art are a part of history.

[Zeibek]

I can't agree with Moros more. I studied history for 7 years and i couldn't find work in the field and now i work in some company's archive which is very frustrating at times

I'm scared to death that that's what will happen to me. I'm only in highschool, but I know that once I get to university I'll become a history major. Well maybe not necessarily history; something like anthropolgy or linguistics is just as possible. But the thing is I don't want an academic career where I have to be in constant competition against my peers, fighting for measly grant money. But what can a history major do other than teach history, become an academic or become an archeologist?

Archaeology has never really interested me. Flamingcookbook already mentioned the disregard towards contemporary chronicles which is often exhibited in archaelogists (my aunt is married to one so I'm not riding on mere stereotypes) which puts me off, but similarly I've got this image of all classical historians as philhellenes with deep disregard towards other cultures (this image was has been created by my current history teacher who has apparently studied at Oxford). Besides history my other interests are the study of myth, linguistics and general anthropology.

However, the greatest thing hindering me is the fact that my areas of interest vary incredibly widely; just this summer I read eveything I could get my hands on about the Ainu, and now its the obscure Finnic tribes like the Chudes that provoke the most fascination in me. Before either of those it was the Indo-Iranians and the Tocharians. And those are just my historical interests, as I'm also interested in German philosphy, general literature and psychology (mostly psychoanalysis as opposed to behavioural studies).

I know that I'm still young and I've got years ahead of me, but the fact is either I'm gonna become either an academic or a teacher. And I don't want to become either. I just want to learn about the world, not build a boring and meaningless career. But unfortunately they don't pay you just for that. If they do, you have to specialize, and I don't want to.

Blaah. Sorry that this ended up being an angsty rant, but I just had to vent some pressure. Test week is coming up and I've gotta study math which I'm never gonna use.

[cmacq]

Zeibek

"Flamingcookbook already mentioned the disregard towards contemporary chronicles which is often exhibited in archaelogists (my aunt is married to one so I'm not riding on mere stereotypes) which puts me off, but similarly I've got this image of all classical historians as philhellenes with deep disregard towards other cultures (this image was has been created by my current history teacher who has apparently studied at Oxford). Besides history my other interests are the study of myth, linguistics and general anthropology."

___________________________________________________________________________________________

A few random words.

Personally, with an accurate translation and the proper frame of reference, I’ve often found Classical textual information profoundly useful. However, I’ve noticed that in the last 25 years, with the passing of the old guard, many of the tenets associated with American Archaeology, have become a mantra of the various regional expressions of European Archaeology. As if this were something new and improved; its really not, since this movement commenced in the 60s. This an attempt to counter the nationalistically inspired abuses of the past, justifiable for these transgressions were many and of great consequence. Still, due to the temperament and pharmaceutical predilections of its practitioners the pendulum swung too far, too fast, more the pity.

Actually, the so-called stereotype is the norm for American Archaeology, and of course I find myself, the exception that proves this rule. I will not tire anyone with a long drawn out discription of the modern Ameri Archaeologist stereotype, except; Alcoholic, drugged out, pogish, hippie wantabe, culturally self-loathing, boorishly self-absorbed, pathetically parasitic, ill-prepared, ill-equipped, knavishly uninformed, brain-washed, dogmatically self-righteous, inconsiderate, and hello; a shame artist expecting an easy yet meaningless corporate or government job with a long lazy retirement. You see, I'm not one to judge.

In general, American Archaeology is driven by Southwestern Archaeology, as this is the largest and most influential community, thereof. That is, influential as far as application and methodology is concerned. It’s very possible that the American Southwestern Archaeological community is the largest in the world. Over the years I’ve been privileged to work with many gifted individuals; however they are indeed exceptions to the rule, as well. It’s enough to say I have great distain for the typical American Southwestern Archaeologist, and many others of their ilk that proved to be sojourners in a foreign land. Besides everything else, one of the most prominent reasons for my attitude, is the wholesale rejection of a comprehensive approach to the discipline’s application.

I have often said, to the consternation of many, ‘as oversight, History is the great enemy of the Southwestern Archaeologist, and if they could ever find it, they would certainly kill it.’ Luckily, they wouldn't recognize history, even if it bit them on their arss, and in fact if it did they might not notice it at all. Its a very sad truth, that was not always so, yet apparently with little intrinsic inspiration, Euro Arch seems to have mindlessly aped Ameri Arch and is now on its way to a dark and dismal dead end. I may add, a place we here are just beginning to return from. Also to the great dismay of many in the community, I say, ‘In itself, Archaeology has no meaning, other than to progress the historic narrative.’ And…

these are just a few small reasons why I am both, hated and feared by the run of the mill Stereotypical. Of course there are other reasons, but none of these have anything to do with, a self imposed tunnel vision.




CmacQ

[antiochus epiphanes]

Zeibek

"Flamingcookbook already mentioned the disregard towards contemporary chronicles which is often exhibited in archaelogists (my aunt is married to one so I'm not riding on mere stereotypes) which puts me off, but similarly I've got this image of all classical historians as philhellenes with deep disregard towards other cultures (this image was has been created by my current history teacher who has apparently studied at Oxford). Besides history my other interests are the study of myth, linguistics and general anthropology."

___________________________________________________________________________________________

A few random words.

Personally, with an accurate translation and the proper frame of reference, I’ve often found Classical textual information profoundly useful. However, I’ve noticed that in the last 25 years, with the passing of the old guard, many of the tenets associated with American Archaeology, have become a mantra of the various regional expressions of European Archaeology. As if this were something new and improved; its really not, since this movement commenced in the 60s. This an attempt to counter the nationalistically inspired abuses of the past, justifiable for these transgressions were many and of great consequence. Still, due to the temperament and pharmaceutical predilections of its practitioners the pendulum swung too far, too fact, more the pity.

Actually, the so-called stereotype is the norm for American Archaeology, and of course I find myself, the exception that proves this rule. I will not tire anyone with a long drawn out discription of the modern Ameri Archaeologist stereotype, except; Alcoholic, drugged out, pogish, hippie wantabe, culturally self-loathing, boorishly self-absorbed, pathetically parasitic, ill-prepared, ill-equipped, knavishly uninformed, brain-washed, dogmatically self-righteous, inconsiderate, and hello; a shame artist expecting an easy yet meaningless government job with a long lazy retirement. You see, I'm not one to judge.

In general, American Archaeology is driven by Southwestern Archaeology, as this is the largest and most influential community, thereof. That is, influential as far as application and methodology is concerned. It’s very possible that the American Southwestern Archaeological community is the largest in the world. Over the years I’ve been privileged to work with many gifted individuals; however they are indeed exceptions to the rule, as well. It’s enough to say I have great distain for the typical American Southwestern Archaeologist, and many others of their ilk that proved to be sojourners in a foreign land. Besides everything else, one of the most prominent reasons for my attitude, is the wholesale rejection of a comprehensive approach to the discipline’s application.

I have often said, to the consternation of many, ‘as oversight, History is the great enemy of the Southwestern Archaeologist, and if they could ever find it, they would certainly kill it.’ Luckily, they wouldn't recognize history, even if it bit them on their arss, and in fact if it did they might not notice it at all. Its a very sad truth, that was not always so, yet apparently with little intrinsic inspiration, Euro Arch seems to have mindlessly aped Ameri Arch and is now on its way to a dark and dismal dead end. I may add, a place we here are just beginning to return from. Also to the great dismay of many in the community, I say, ‘In itself, Archaeology has no meaning, other than to progress the historic narrative.’ And…

these are just a few small reasons why I am both, hated and feared by the run of the mill Stereotypical. Of course there are other reasons, but none of these have anything to do with, a self imposed tunnel vision.




CmacQ

wow

thats sad, i truly feel for you to have to work with that level of incompetence

[oudysseos]

Artorius, the study of history is deeply rewarding in many ways but only rarely financially so. I have degrees in history, classics, and a modern language, but not wanting to teach, or work in academia, I have never earned money from my studies (I'm a chef-restaurateur). Never regretted my studies, do not regret my career, but I do wish that I had, at the point in life that you are now at, spent some time thinking clearly about the future.
If you feel a call to teach, or to dig, then go for it, though I urge you to gather as much hard-nosed information as you can about a prospective career. If you're not interested in a particular course of study because of how much money it could earn you, then good for you! Socrates would be proud.

[Che Roriniho]

IF you do go all the way, which we all hope you do, then for the love of god PLEASE excavate, or at least evaluate, one of the Indo-Greek cities, we beg of you. Plus, your name would o down in the history books as the first person ever to do this.

You have our full support!

[flamingcookbook]

"Actually, the so-called stereotype is the norm for American Archaeology, and of course I find myself, the exception that proves this rule. I will not tire anyone with a long drawn out discription of the modern Ameri Archaeologist stereotype, except; Alcoholic, drugged out, pogish, hippie wantabe, culturally self-loathing, boorishly self-absorbed, pathetically parasitic, ill-prepared, ill-equipped, knavishly uninformed, brain-washed, dogmatically self-righteous, inconsiderate, and hello; a shame artist expecting an easy yet meaningless government job with a long lazy retirement. You see, I'm not one to judge."


I agree 100%. I have noticed this phenomenon and it sickens me. The archaeology phds i knew seemed really washed up and illucid. It's not so much they are drugged out though, but they sure act dopey and lazy and very uppity. Also the women who do archaeology are 95% socially withdrawn. They act emo, and psychoanalytically I know that they secretly wish they were dead, hence the fascination with tombs, and I know for a fact they secretly hate humanity and the beauty and humour of history. I get the feeling they really hate people, and prefer talking to the frescoes. It's so sad.

[Thaatu]

IF you do go all the way, which we all hope you do, then for the love of god PLEASE excavate, or at least evaluate, one of the Indo-Greek cities, we beg of you. Plus, your name would o down in the history books as the first person ever to do this.

When I graduate, I'm going to excavate in Afghanistan and establish "The Combat Archaeology Team". I can already picture myself brushing up a perfectly preserved Greco-Bactrian temple with my right hand, while giving covering fire to my colleagues with the machine gun on my left hand. Plus, it can be made into a reality show. It would be awesome. Announcer: "The team has just four days to excavate the site, before they are overrun by the Taliban! Can they do it, or will this be the last episode of... Combat Archaeology. Stay tuned!"





What?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

When I graduate, I'm going to excavate in Afghanistan and establish "The Combat Archaeology Team". I can already picture myself brushing up a perfectly preserved Greco-Bactrian temple with my right hand, while giving covering fire to my colleagues with the machine gun on my left hand. Plus, it can be made into a reality show. It would be awesome. Announcer: "The team has just four days to excavate the site, before they are overrun by the Taliban! Can they do it, or will this be the last episode of... Combat Archaeology. Stay tuned!"





What?

The vibrations from the SMG recoil would damage the site.

Anyway, much of what has been said is true. If you are in America then I have little else to offer, apart from this:

LEARN LATIN it is completely essential for Mediaeval or Classical history.

[Thaatu]

The vibrations from the SMG recoil would damage the site.

I've also been planning a self-defence course for archaeological sites. They need to grow a pair.

[Ludens]

When I graduate, I'm going to excavate in Afghanistan and establish "The Combat Archaeology Team". I can already picture myself brushing up a perfectly preserved Greco-Bactrian temple with my right hand, while giving covering fire to my colleagues with the machine gun on my left hand. Plus, it can be made into a reality show. It would be awesome. Announcer: "The team has just four days to excavate the site, before they are overrun by the Taliban! Can they do it, or will this be the last episode of... Combat Archaeology. Stay tuned!"

The vibrations from the SMG recoil would damage the site.

[Thaatu]

It's a good thing there aren't many SMG's in Afghanistan, since assault rifles are much more popular there. Keeps the sites intact.

[bovi]

This device is certified for use on archeological sites. The recoil will harmlessly resonate through any artifacts. Disclaimer: Artifacts may still be damaged if struck or shot directly or by ricochet. ONLY use against soft targets, or Indiana Jones warranty is void. Targets may still damage artifacts when receiving a projectile. Handle with care. Barrel or contents of barrel may be hot and/or harmful. Consult your researcher before operating this device.

...

[Thaatu]

This device is certified for use on archeological sites. The recoil will harmlessly resonate through any artifacts. Disclaimer: Artifacts may still be damaged if struck or shot directly or by ricochet. ONLY use against soft targets, or Indiana Jones warranty is void. Targets may still damage artifacts when receiving a projectile. Handle with care. Barrel or contents of barrel may be hot and/or harmful. Consult your researcher before operating this device.

Awww... That's so cute! The same disclaimers are on RK62's. Brings back a lot of memories... That's what made me want to become an archaeologist.