Legendary Holy Ark in Europa Barbarorum II?!

[Aulus Caecina Severus]

There is an ancient legend that today has never been demonstrated nor deny ... that of the sacred ark, the symbol of the covenant between God (Yahweh) and men.

Built, probably at the time of the nineteenth Egyptian dynasty (twelfth century BC), commissioned by God through Moses to preserve the sacred tablets of the Law (Bible). It was kept for centuries in the temple of Solomon in Jerusalem.
When Nebuchadnezzar II in 586 BC, defeated the Jews and destroyed the holy temple, the ark disappeared from any mention

It is said that with the ark in front of each army was invincible.
To this belief the ark was chased by many (including Nazis) and is also now being sought from eminent archaeologists ...
His discovery testify to the existence of God

It would be a bomb in some way add the ark in the mod, perhaps with a mission to find it (Jerusalem, Babylon, Axum). Once you have found would give 3 + moral + 6 experience, 20 public (for example). Although this is a legend (not necessarily true story) would make this great mod even more interesting and mysterious ...

sorry, I know that is a strange idea

[machinor]

It is said that with the ark in front of each army was invincible.
To this belief the ark was chased by many (including Nazis) and is also now being sought from eminent archaeologists ...
His discovery testify to the existence of God

Seriously, you should not take a clearly fictious movie like "Raiders of the Lost Ark" as fact.
Apart from that, the Ark was of no interest to anybody apart from the Jews back then.

[Aulus Caecina Severus]

Yes you are right, I may have done slightly conditioned by this legend ...
But something must be true if some archaeologists today still seek it.

is the case of Vendil Jones (true jew archaeologist who inspired the film 'raiders of lost ark ") and looking for the ark instead found valuable manuscripts authentic (but not officially recognized) as those of Qumran (correct?).

However the ark is not just about the Jewish religion, but it is known (and approved) by Christians and Muslims alike that implement Moses as an important figure.

[Shadowwalker]

(1) I don't want to start a religion discussion. This is definitly not the place for it. And as I want everyone to respect my philosophy of life I have to do the same to the philosophy of others (as long as it is legal...)
(2) The legend of the ark is - as many other parts of, if not the whole - Old Testament, borrowed from earlier cultures.
To specify it: the Sumerians had a long tale (much longer than the Bible one) about Zi-U-Sud-Ra (in babylonian language: Utnapischtim; accadian: Atra-Hasis) who built a ship rescuing him, his family (and iirc some friends of this family) and of course animals (and plants) from the flood.
He did so in following an order from his god E-A/En-Ki. E-A's brother En-Lil had decided to destroy mankind but E-A wasn't pleased about this decision as mankind was his creation.*
There is a lot of speculation on this topic, hundreds of scientists and wanna-be-scientists searched for the ark. A couple of years ago some "fans of creationism" claimed they had found it at the Ararat, but when a geologist went there to examine the "proofs" he found ...
nothing.
Nobody ever found anything that would proof the existense of a boat that was used to survive the flood.

So this legend is really nothing I like to see in EB II.
It's something you can discuss with friends while sitting in a bar (but make sure that it doesn't come to a religious discussion - such discussions can kill friendships really quick) but EB is about history not fantasy.

(3) If I sound harsh you have my apologies, that was not my intention. I'm just not very good at speaking english when it comes to such special themes.

EDIT: Oh, and the Bible speaks of Noah, not Moses that built the ark...


*A whole lot of irritations about the Old Testament would be unnecessary if the bible scientists (right term?) would accept that the monotheistic Christendom (at least the Genesis) is just an excerpt from the much older sumerian/babylonian/egyptian/early indian religions (which all have the same core btw).
For example: why says God that his creation was good just to have a few lines further the opposite opinion? If you read the sumerian text (I obviously also didn't read the original ... I wish I had some fifty years of spraetime to learn cuneiform ) you will find that E-A is pleased with the creation but En-Ki is not...
The author(s) of the Old Testament just merged the two sumerian gods into one new: Yahwe.

[Mediolanicus]

Yes you are right, I may have done slightly conditioned by this legend ...
But something must be true if some archaeologists today still seek it.

is the case of Vendil Jones (true jew archaeologist who inspired the film 'raiders of lost ark ") and looking for the ark instead found valuable manuscripts authentic (but not officially recognized) as those of Qumran (correct?).

However the ark is not just about the Jewish religion, but it is known (and approved) by Christians and Muslims alike that implement Moses as an important figure.

Wishful thinking and believe in their religion would have more to do with that than historical accuracy.

Which doesn't mean there isn't something called the ark of course... Although I personally do not believe there was anything religious about, although I can imagine it would have been quite a good magic trick - or simple fysics/chemical trick rather - back then. (Which is just a personal opinion.)


Christian and Muslims were kinda rare in the third, second and first century BC.

[Novellus]

(1) I don't want to start a religion discussion. This is definitly not the place for it. And as I want everyone to respect my philosophy of life I have to do the same to the philosophy of others (as long as it is legal...)
(2) The legend of the ark is - as many other parts of, if not the whole - Old Testament, borrowed from earlier cultures.
To specify it: the Sumerians had a long tale (much longer than the Bible one) about Zi-U-Sud-Ra (in babylonian language: Utnapischtim; accadian: Atra-Hasis) who built a ship rescuing him, his family (and iirc some friends of this family) and of course animals (and plants) from the flood.
He did so in following an order from his god E-A/En-Ki. E-A's brother En-Lil had decided to destroy mankind but E-A wasn't pleased about this decision as mankind was his creation.*
There is a lot of speculation on this topic, hundreds of scientists and wanna-be-scientists searched for the ark. A couple of years ago some "fans of creationism" claimed they had found it at the Ararat, but when a geologist went there to examine the "proofs" he found ...
nothing.
Nobody ever found anything that would proof the existense of a boat that was used to survive the flood.

So this legend is really nothing I like to see in EB II.
It's something you can discuss with friends while sitting in a bar (but make sure that it doesn't come to a religious discussion - such discussions can kill friendships really quick) but EB is about history not fantasy.

(3) If I sound harsh you have my apologies, that was not my intention. I'm just not very good at speaking english when it comes to such special themes.

EDIT: Oh, and the Bible speaks of Noah, not Moses that built the ark...


*A whole lot of irritations about the Old Testament would be unnecessary if the bible scientists (right term?) would accept that the monotheistic Christendom (at least the Genesis) is just an excerpt from the much older sumerian/babylonian/egyptian/early indian religions (which all have the same core btw).
For example: why says God that his creation was good just to have a few lines further the opposite opinion? If you read the sumerian text (I obviously also didn't read the original ... I wish I had some fifty years of spraetime to learn cuneiform ) you will find that E-A is pleased with the creation but En-Ki is not...
The author(s) of the Old Testament just merged the two sumerian gods into one new: Yahwe.

He is referring to the "Ark of the Covenant", which is essentially a fancy box with the stone tablets with the Ten Commandments written on them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ark_of_the_Covenant

Anyway, on topic, it would be interesting if it were applicable. Unfortunately, the Ark has been lost throughout history. And due to the lack of true factual and archaeological evidence, it cannot be included in Europa Barbarorum for that reason. Perhaps if one were to find it though, then some thought may be given into it. But it is lost, and possibly forever.

[Shadowwalker]

Oh sh**,
Like I said - me and my english. A story full of misunderstandings.
Sorry then for replying on a topic never brought upon the table.
But my opinion about implementing this does not change as the Ark of the Covenant is also just a legend. If someone gives me an undisputable evidence of it's once-existence we could discuss if it fits in the mod (I would say: no, wrong timeframe. ). Otherwise it's speculative.


Anyway, thanks to you, Novellus, for enlightening me.

[Novellus]

Oh sh**,
Like I said - me and my english. A story full of misunderstandings.
Sorry then for replying on a topic never brought upon the table.
But my opinion about implementing this does not change as the Ark of the Covenant is also just a legend. If someone gives me an undisputable evidence of it's once-existence we could discuss if it fits in the mod (I would say: no, wrong timeframe. ). Otherwise it's speculative.


Anyway, thanks to you, Novellus, for enlightening me.

No worries. I've had several misunderstandings myself on these forums. Besides, I was confused when I heard the word "Ark", thinking of "Joan of Arc", "Noah's Ark", and "The Arch De Triumph".

[Cyclops]

I guess with the BI offices system you could mod in a "keeper of the ark" for a leader who took Jerusalem. Isn't there a "body of Alexander" mission for some of the Diadochi? I guess its do-able but I can't think of an EB timeframe faction that would care enough about Moses to be impressed by it.

Is there a venerable item that could be modded in? I suppose Alexander's ring was desirable to Augustus, who pinched it (and knocked off Al's nose) but thats rather late in the EB day. Maybe the Sybilline books? They mattered to the senate.

Perhaps certain famous scrolls, like the ones the Ptolemy's diddled out of the Athenians (I forget who, was it Aeschylus?). They borrowed the scrolls ostensibly to copy them, and left a hefty deposit, but never returned them. money well spent, clearly the scrolls were of value to the regime, although i guess they resided in the Library, not the ruler's pocket.

No worries. I've had several misunderstandings myself on these forums. Besides, I was confused when I heard the word "Ark", thinking of "Joan of Arc", "Noah's Ark", and "The Arch De Triumph".

Hmm, maybe they made the Ark (of the covenant) out of the wood from the ark (of the Noah), and gave it to the King of the Armenians (the "Arkah") who is the ancestor of Joan of Arc (via Mary Magdalen of course) who invented electricity making possible arc-lights and arcade games, which are the lineal ancestors of PC TBS/RTB masterpieces like RTW and its offspring EB...wait a moment, there's an albino at the door...

[antisocialmunky]

The thing disappeared before the Babylonian Diaspora and wasn't replaced in the Second Temple.

[lenin96]

We know nothing about where such a thing would be in EB's time frame.

[oudysseos]

Not intending to cause any offense, but this is a pretty bizarre idea for an historical accuracy mod. Also, while I don't want to get into a discussion of whether or not there was an Ark, a Moses or a Jehovah, I do have to point out that the Ark as described in Exodus was built out of wood (acacia) somewhere between 1500 and 1200 BCE (there are huge controversies about the dating of the Exodus).
At best, then, you're talking about a wooden artifact at least 1000 years old (if not more) by the time our game begins.
What condition do you expect it'd be in?

Hmm, maybe they made the Ark (of the covenant) out of the wood from the ark (of the Noah), and gave it to the King of the Armenians (the "Arkah") who is the ancestor of Joan of Arc (via Mary Magdalen of course) who invented electricity making possible arc-lights and arcade games, which are the lineal ancestors of PC TBS/RTB masterpieces like RTW and its offspring EB...wait a moment, there's an albino at the door...

Oh my lord, the albino... it's...

Teleklos Archelaou

[Aulus Caecina Severus]

But who is this Albino?!
Joking aside ... I did not want anyone to impose my religious beliefs or otherwise.
I understand that any presence of the ark would be unfair to those who do not believe (even if there are more clues about life on the ark that existence of the gardens of Babylon).
Also, this mod historian was born to be relevant to the story real and proven.

It is clear that this mod has the objective to transmit culture.

It was in this context that could be interesting to talk about the ark that is not still been found, may be placed at any period since its hypothetical creation until our time.
This is because an object would be found, implicitly, without reference to a precise time.

I was just a bizarre idea, but it was nice to discuss it with you. Thank you.

[Ludens]

Hmm, maybe they made the Ark (of the covenant) out of the wood from the ark (of the Noah), and gave it to the King of the Armenians (the "Arkah") who is the ancestor of Joan of Arc (via Mary Magdalen of course) who invented electricity making possible arc-lights and arcade games, which are the lineal ancestors of PC TBS/RTB masterpieces like RTW and its offspring EB...wait a moment, there's an albino at the door...

Oh my lord, the albino... it's...

Teleklos Archelaou

[oudysseos]

Aulus, I have to admit I find your sentences a little hard to follow, but

It is clear that this mod has the objective to transmit culture.

is not quite right: the objective of the mod is to be as accurate and informative as possible about all the cultures that fell within the scope of the map and the times, not to promote any particular culture.

[Aulus Caecina Severus]

I still think it is very good in that game for pc there is so much information on the history.

Some of them may yourself, others may make us change their minds about the history, for those who are fond of history is perhaps the most successful mod ... to historical truth even if it makes the game less showy or attractive (?)

[Shadowwalker]

History lessons and accuracy can in my opinion never turn a game into something less attractive.
But maybe I'm just (a little bit) addicted to history.

[antisocialmunky]

There probably won't be Jewish units in the game even.

[desert]

And good riddance!

Those guys are too tough for their own good.

[Cute Wolf]

The Greeks are not interested in worshipping Jewish/Christian GOD before they meet Paul. (Seleucids are worse, they even defile the temple with Pigs and erect Statues of Zeus)

The Middle Eastern (Hay, Pontos, Phalava, Saba, Kardhastim) has some respect maybe... but they had more important affairs with the greeks....

Barbarians and nomads are simply too far away to get involved....

And if U got Romans, we will only got premature destruction of the Jerusalem....





That mission to find Ark of the Covenant was onl logic if the EB team, (or modders that mod EB II) decide to create a jewish factions... (Maccabeids maybe)

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

I surprised this hasn't turned into a complete flame-fest yet.
In order to prevent that, though, I'm going to close it.
This is not the forum for religious debate.

I can tell you with some certainty though, there will be no Ark of the Covenant in EBII.