Battle balance

[Aemilius Paulus]

Excuse me? Are you kidding? Have you even played RTW? In RTW Vanilla even touching the pikes of a phalanx spelled instant doom for anyone except überelite units.

Maybe, but you'll have to agree that phalanxes are even tougher in EB.

This is one of my previous posts:
"I was playing as the Romani once and I was in a battle against Seleukids. They had 4 Pantodapoi Phalangitai (Hellenic Native Phalanx) with zero exp./weap./armour, which are pretty much equivalent to Machimoi phalanx, among other units. Eventually I routed and destroyed most (except their cavalry) of the other units and was left with the four phalanxes. I sent four units of 2 exp/1 weapons&armour Principes to charge the front of each phalanx as well as 2 Greek Classical Hoplites and 3 Triarii with same weapons/exp/armour to fully envelop the phalanxes. The result was shocking. Those lousy Pantodapoi left each unit of Principes with only about 25 men each (from starting 82 men - large unit scale). After that battle I usually whittled down the Seleukid phalanxes with slingers or cavalry (charging in their backs)."

[Lucio Domicio Aureliano]

I believe the phalanks in EB are a little bit stronger than they should be, if you go against some elite phalanks it´s almost certain that you´re going to lose even if you charge than in the flank or rear. I´m not saying this´s wrong but i think they should be a little weaker and suffer from a flank or rear attack heavily.

[Foot]

I know, thats what I understood from your first post. Obviously things will change in EBII (they'll have to because lethality don't exist no more), but I disagree with your assessment on strength. We do the best we can given the limitations in the stat code. Phalanxes may be a little too stronger than we might like on the flank and rear, but it is consequence of certain other stats that are essential, not a decision we made but one made for us.

Foot

[Aemilius Paulus]

they'll have to because lethality don't exist no more
Foot

Whaaat? Why did CA remove lethality from M2TW? To simplify the stats?

[satalexton]

i think that may be able to work around using hp and some adjusting with attack and defense stats... =/

[quackingduck]

personally i think the current unit/battle balance is awesome. once i got over the original vanilla to eb shock, it was really good. i wouldn't know exactly how good the real phalaxes and such would have actually preformed, but for playing the game all the units were spot on, IMHO.

[satalexton]

i never had problem with phalanx troops, there's nothing a well timed hetairoi charge (or 2 at most) cannot rout =D

[General Appo]

Maybe, but you'll have to agree that phalanxes are even tougher in EB.

This is one of my previous posts:
"I was playing as the Romani once and I was in a battle against Seleukids. They had 4 Pantodapoi Phalangitai (Hellenic Native Phalanx) with zero exp./weap./armour, which are pretty much equivalent to Machimoi phalanx, among other units. Eventually I routed and destroyed most (except their cavalry) of the other units and was left with the four phalanxes. I sent four units of 2 exp/1 weapons&armour Principes to charge the front of each phalanx as well as 2 Greek Classical Hoplites and 3 Triarii with same weapons/exp/armour to fully envelop the phalanxes. The result was shocking. Those lousy Pantodapoi left each unit of Principes with only about 25 men each (from starting 82 men - large unit scale). After that battle I usually whittled down the Seleukid phalanxes with slingers or cavalry (charging in their backs)."

Sounds like maybe this guy wasn´t playing on Medium.

[Mithridates VI Eupator]

I've never had any problem with the phalanxes. Sure, they pack quite a punch, but then again, they're supposed to. If you manage to surround them, that ususally does tyhe trick.

[Ibrahim]

well, they didn't totally remove the lethality (at, least, in a manner of RTW). there is a file with the correct info in it. I work on a mod of M2TW myself (frontier, at the TW center). here is a transcript of a PM:

I agree about quick and bloody. If you've got a little time, try opening up your battle_config.xml file and look for the following line:

<melee-hit-rate>1.75</melee-hit-rate>

Comment out this line and change that value to 0.25, like this:

<!--<melee-hit-rate>1.75</melee-hit-rate>-->

<melee-hit-rate>0.25</melee-hit-rate>

This will make your battles last much longer with casualty rates generally between 10% and 30% per battle before an army runs. Assuming no massive cavalry chase, two armies can survive several engagements relatively intact for some time.



To avoid massive damage from missile units, likewise adjust their unit hit probabilities downward. We can make specific values for many types of units, too. Check it out and tell me what you think.





Thanks,

ADM

this is assuming of course that hit rate=similar to, or is lethality.

as for the part highlighted in red, I'm not sure if that is true...I'll let you fellows know on friday.

[Foot]

Wow, great info there. We'll have to look into that.

Foot

[Ibrahim]

thank Kundich. the guy knows his M2TW programming

[BozosLiveHere]

melee-hit-rate is an entry in battle_config.xml. It is a global value, not unit-specific like lethality was in RTW.