The Royal Council

[Rodrico Stak]

Attalos Mysiakes smiles. He stands to speak.

I agree with both Edict 2.2 and CA 2.1, and therefore second both.

I especially agree with edict 2.2! It is time that my uncle was taken off of his ill-gotten throne!

He sits down.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Antiochos smiles..

And this was one of the reasons I proposed this Edict, dear Attalos. Another reason was that we just can not allow Pontos or Makedonia to take them! Pergamon is a rich city and we need it's wealth! And leaving Halikarnassos independent near our borders, free for every mayor State to attack them, is too big of a risk!

[The Celtic Viking]

"I agree with Edict 2.2, and I would like to propose that these objectives, should the edict go through, should be given to me and my royal army. Since I'm the satrap in the area, I have been in contact with these kingdoms, having done trade with them, and I know many nobles there who would welcome my coming. Beyond this, I know the lay of the land better than most, and I need the battlefield experience that I think an heir of our great Arche should have.

In fact, I had planned to make these suggestions myself, but before I could do so I was caught up with Euripedes' words and didn't get around to it then. While I realize this means nothing and I have only myself to blame, I thought I'd should let it be known."

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

OOC: If you think I'm just making the last part up, I-K should be able to confirm that I've had the intentions prior to this council, as I spoke to him about it in a PM.

... and there's no need to tell me that I'm abusing the spoiler function: I already know that.

[00jebus]

Timarchos smirks at this


....and your men need the experience too, considering most in the phalax havn't yet seen a living enemy



I would ask the council though, if my father, the exiled ruler of Pergamon, be given command of any army the liberates his own city, as he knows the lay of the land, the local populus and nobility far better than anyone else here.

[Roka]

Achaios Syriakos stands up

Although I agree that my brother's son the Kleronomos Basileios, should gain battlefield experience I think that the best chance we have that the people of Pergamon will accept our invasion with open arms, is if the exiled king leads the invasion, it would be better in the long run

OOC: i'm back and will now be playing a full part in WotB

[Celtic_Punk]

Milord, Are regular army command posts subject to change at anytime?

Timarchos is correct. The men need experience given that they are raw recruits.

[The Celtic Viking]

"The "exiled king" was exiled because he couldn't keep control of the city, and because the nobles didn't like him. If he could, and they did, why would he have been exiled in the first place?

Nay, make no mistake: Timarchos is letting a personal vendetta against me run his decision making, rather than what is actually best for us all. Do not fall for his cheap tricks of rhetoric."

[Celtic_Punk]

Unrightful coups occur all the time Sarpedon. The nobles of a country serve their own interests. not the ones of the people.

[The Celtic Viking]

"Of course, but Timarchos claims that he "know the local populace and nobility", and I don't think he meant that he knows them well as enemies. You can try to spin that however you like, but fact still remains that he couldn't keep control of it then, so why trust him with a charge he has already shown that he can't handle?

Any competent governor, let alone king, must know how to keep the nobles happy and in control. To put it bluntly, I don't see how the failure to do so would somehow be a merit in the resume for taking control of it now."

[The Celtic Viking]

Sarpedon rises again.

"There is one more thing though that I would like to have said. First of all I would like to applaud Antiochos, my father, for his work as Chancellor. We all should know that the money's been tight, but I for one feel that he has done the best he could with what he had to work with. For this I bow to you, father."

Sarpedon bows.

"But alas! his term as Chancellor has run out. When this council is resolved, he will have to step down from that position, and a new one will have to be appointed. That goes even if no one is willing to take the job, all thanks to bureaucracy. Since no one has yet to step forward as a candidate, am I to take it that no one is up for the job? I think I can change that with but one announcement: I hereby propose myself as a candidate to the position of Chancellor for the upcoming term.

There! That should make the applications flood in faster than cowards can run."

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Antiochos nods to Sarpedon...

I thank you for your kind words! It was a financial nightmare to get those Royal, Regular and Satrap Armies up to their minimal strength! I just hope that the next Chancellor could get the Arche to make money again! It's good to hear that you, Sarpedon, have decided make yourself a candidate. You are well known as a good governor. Perhaps three years from now you will be known as a good Chancellor too?!

Antiochos smiles..

Also I would like to welcome my brother, Achaios, to this Council. You have been away for too long!

[Roka]

Achaios rises slowly

Thank you brother, my body knows not the strength of my youth, but rest assured whatever strength i have left shall be devoted to the glory of the Arche!

[Rodrico Stak]

Rather annoyed, Attalos Pegamou Mysiakes stands.

I may be the exiled King of Pergamon, but I was never king there myself! I merely inherited the title when my father died. I was forced to flee when my father's brother usurped his throne when I was seventeen. So I was exiled not because the people or the nobles didn't like me, but because a powerful group of ungrateful nobles liked my uncle more than my father. I have been to Pergamon since, in disguise. I would not aspire to rule a people that I do not understand, and I believe that I understand the Pergamese more than my uncle does. I hope that clears up a few misconceptions.

He sits down.

[Celtic_Punk]

I say we return the rightful King of Pergamon to his rightful place! It is his throne by birthright. Sarpedon you would wish the same if that happened to you.

[The Celtic Viking]

"Oh, I see! Attalos wants to rule the city himself! Attalos thinks he is greater than the Basileus! Are you sure you want to go down that road? Because when we conquer Pergamon, it will not be yours to rule, no matter who does the conquering. Any settlement conquered is conquered for the Basileus, and not some exiled "king". To say otherwise is to go against the constitution.

So the throne of Pergamon is for the Basileus alone, and last time I checked, that was not Attalos. You remember that."

[Ibn-Khaldun]

OOC: The Council Session will be open another 7 hours. So it will be closed 17.00 GMT and the polls will be put up. I apologize for the delay!

[johnhughthom]

Polyxenidos Lykikos stands once again

Before I make my point I would just like to clarify one thing. When I argued against sacking and looting Alexandria I asked you all to reflect on the name of the city, some of you have told me it is foolish to make decisions based on a name. As I'm sure most of the intelligent men in the room realised I asked you to consider the name to jog your memories on it's history. I shall have to remember some of you don't grasp such subtleties. a quick glance at Cunobelinus' messenger and Timarchos I would also like to add that I have been disappointed to hear a few of you talk about bringing Alexandros' body back to Babylon. I am a proud citizen of that great city and would love for him to be interred there, but the fact is he rests in Alexandria and when we take that city we should leave him in peace, it is unseemly to drag a mans body across the world. Give him the dignity he deserves in death, the Ptolemies are certainly incapable of it.

My apologies for my long windedness I will get to my main point now. This talk of Pergamon's past has made me consider the future of the Arche Seleukeia. While we may have a great Basileus, and an heir who looks like he will become just as great, that may not always be the case, all it takes is one bad son to destroy a dynasty. Look at the founding of our empire for what happens if a great leader dies with no strong natural heir. We have a room full, mostly, of capable men. Shouldn't we choose from amongst each other who would be best to rule the empire? Let me make clear that my loyalty for the future is with Sarpedon and I pledge to vote for him if this edict was to pass, I am thinking further down the road.

So my edict: Edict2.3 Every council session a vote is made amongst the strategoi to decide faction heir.

Lykikos sat, wondering if he had gone too far with his radical proposal, and if he had left it too late in the session to get it seconded

[Rodrico Stak]

Attalos Mysiakes half-smiles and stands up.

Yes, I do aspire to be returned to the throne that is mine by birthright, but I would never dream of ruling the city in any way that would usurp the power of the Baselius. I would not forget that I was returned to my kingdom by the Arche Seleukia, and so I merely aspire to rule the kingdom of Pergamon as a loyal vassal of the Arche Seleukia, not to take power and then forget about those that made it possible.

As for your proposal, Polyxedidos, that is extremely interesting. In the name of having the best possible man for the job, I second edict 2.3.

He sits down.

[00jebus]

*looking at Sarpedon*

Sir, the greek's are known for their logic, so please, try to show some, you have come in here brandishing nothing but insults and contempt to those unlucky enough to not have such a high office handed to them by birth who dare to show any devience from your own views, do you really think that any future ruler of the arche who displayed himself in such a way would command the respect of such a large empire with so many varied cultures?

Nay, such a man would bring ruin to the arche faster than any other empire, and for that reason I second edict 2.3.

I would also like to assure you, though, I do not wish you to be heir to this great empire, I bare no ill will towards you, I simply take a diffrent view about polotics and the military than you, the vendetta you speak of is all in your mind.


Further, since it is obvious that if I was chancellor, you would not accept any act I made without the greatest of struggle's on my part, I also call for Phanias Laodikeias Lydikes, satrap of Parthava, to run for chancellor, since, apart from the baselloes, he is one of the few men in this room with suitable experience, and respect from every quarter.

[Incitatus]

Alexandros rushes in, shamed at his late arrival

I see that I have missed much, and I extend my apologies - there were urgent matters that required my attention. As for the future of Alexandria, nobody denies the fact that it must one day become part of the Arche but I do not believe that such a glorious city should be reduced to rubble in the process. The money to be gained in the looting of the city pales in comparison to the profits we would reap if we delayed the invasion a few years and then sent an occupying force. Why should we fight for the same city twice?

I also agree with Polyxenidos Lykikos' suggestion regarding political succession. It is in everyone's best interests for the Basileus to be approved by all. Therefore, I second Edict 2.3.

Alexandros sits, and reminds himself to finish his paperwork earlier next time

[kingsnake]

Indeed, having the council choose the next Basileus is a good idea. We are closing in to a republic that can be interesting. This is, however a big responsability, and I do hope you realize and are prepared for the consequences, especially on the long run. Like a bigger rate of civil wars and council chaos, so I hope you are wise enough to prevent this and not let the Arche fall into Anarchy. I don't believe we are ready, yet, to make this huge step. Though I'll consider, my vote will be very well thought through.

What is the Basileus opinion of eddict 2.3?
Has the Basielus created this Council, just to see it end his bloodline?
He looked surprised.

I also want to propose a new eddict.

Edict 2.4: That the 1st Syrian Army is to conquer Bostra, in Nabataia region, and Palmyra, in Tadmor region.

Fellow strategoi do propose more projects for the other armies. I would, if I had more power and if I had knowledge of each army's region and situation.

[LordofUmbar]

Agathokles rises

Though Edict 2.3 has been seconded twice, I just wished to give my master's support. He believes like those here that the next ruler of the Empire is a very important position and, as such, the Stratagos' voices should be heard.

Agathokles sits

[johnhughthom]

Polyxenidos Lykikos stands to defend his proposal

Aratos Arethousas Syriakes my friend, who says that this proposal will end the bloodline of the Basileus? Think about it, every vote in here will be a vote in front of the Basileus, voting against the man he wants to be heir would be a huge step, risking his wrath. The only time men would dare do that is if we have a weak Basileus or an incompetent heir. You say it would lead to civil war, chaos, anarchy yet you don't explain why. A weak heir taking over leads to those things. A strong heir, supported by the council, will lead to a strong empire. I certainly do hope you consider this carefully, imagine how carefully I had to consider the risk of proposing this, but I hope you have put more reasoning into any decision you make than you have just shown.

Lykikos sits, pleased at the reaction his edict has drawn

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Antiochos speaks..

Now.. It's too late to propose any new laws since we already expanded the time for proposing legislations once during this Council Session!

I have been discussing here with some of the Magistrates who knows laws better than me..

Nodding towards some of them he continues..

Although Edict 2.3 have been proposed in good faith it should have been proposed as Charter Amendment so unfortunately the current form can not pass. The reason is that it changes the powers of the Basileus in 'Rule 2.4'

(12) Can decide who will be the next Heir at anytime he wishes.

But I do understand why it was proposed.

[The Celtic Viking]

"I think some things need to be cleared out. First of all, it takes a Charter Amendment to change any of our laws, so Edict 2.3 is thus invalid, no matter how many times you second it.

Second of all, I have not come to be the heir by hereditary rule, as suggested by malevolent mouths. The Basileus is free to choose anyone he wish to be his heir, and he chose me because he saw me as the most competent option.

So", Sarpedon turns towards Timarchos, "I would for the last time ask you to cease and desist with your slander against me. You don't like me, and that's fine, and you may disagree with me all you like, but your behaviour is unacceptable in here."

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

OOC: Damn it, I-K beat me to it. Ah, well.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Dear Sarpedon, here you are little bit mistaken. Everyone above Strategos can propose CA. This means Satraps and higher rank Strategoi too.

Antiochos smiles..

[00jebus]

slander? ha!

I have said in this room two things that you take offense at,

firstly, you think me calling you peace loving is wrong, why?
you stopped your royal army marching one season out of its way to destroy an incursion from the north, largely made up of georgian infantry, stronger than all other local armies, so you either lack strategic awareness, trust in other, then, more experienced commander's with your army, or you love peace so much you don't want your army to fight them, I consider the latter the least insulting to you. Is it another one?


then you say you have your position by merit, are you suggesting that you, barely 20 years of age, acheived a satrapy in antollia purely based on administrative talent?

of what, a juice stall?!

no. you have a satrapy because of your father, and that is entirely his perogitive, but, I wonder, in all your lesson's when you were younger, when did insulting the lower orders when they make suggestions you dont like come into them?


Your right though, I don't like you, more because of your insulting manner towards me and your as yet undeserved arrogence than anything else




oh, and one other thing, dear prince, I hearby propose Charter Amendment 2.2 Every council session a vote is made from amongst the basileus's bloodline by all members of the council to decide the faction heir. (this changes rule 2.4, line 12)


This, is a slightly ammended version of Polyxenidos Lykikos'
*he nods towards him*
proposal that also ensure's the wise hand of the Basileus's blood relatives maintain control of the Arche.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Antiochos sighs...

Just before I wanted to declare the Council Session closed still a new legislation is proposed! Unfortunately, it is needed two people to second this or it will not get to voting!

Also.. Timarchos I suggest you to be careful what you say.. He is still my son and the Heir to the throne!

[00jebus]

it's a damn shame sir, that we could not just assume the support of the four others here who supported or seconded my proposed CA when it was an edict..

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Also, that most seem to live in BST, and will have probably gone to bed by now

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I hereby declare that the time for proposing legislation has passed! Voting will begin shortly. There will be a two day period allocated for voting. Voting will end at 21:00 GMT on Sunday, October 5th.