MTW vs. M2TW?

[Rugon]

Hi, I apologize in advance if this topic has already been discussed.

I used to play Medieval total war, and then viking invasion, up until about 3-4 years ago, when it inexplicably stopped working. I then went out and got Rome Total War,and have been playing that. I'm trying to figure out if I should go back and buy the first game or the second one. First off, here are some of the switches from medieval to rome that bothered me.

Namely that simple display of chivalry/dread/acumen/piety/I think influence? That was gone. They also made it more difficult to move (theres no way it takes 6 months to move that short a distance on the map), it was more realistic than the first game but I don't feel like it was a positive switch.

Another thing that bothered me was how you can't just give people titles, like in the first game. Just because a general is in the city doesn't mean he should be king of that city; I much preferred the earlier version.

So basically i'm wondering how close to medieval or rome total war that medieval 2 total war is? can anyone comment on the status of those differences in the second one? I"m trying to figure out which to buy and i don't want to have annoying things like that in a new game when the old one was so good.

Thanks

[Martok]

First off, welcome to the Org, Rugon! Good to see you here.

Hi, I apologize in advance if this topic has already been discussed.

Heh. This topic gets brought up pretty regularly, about every other month or so. (You can practically set your watch to it!) No worries, though.

So basically i'm wondering how close to medieval or rome total war that medieval 2 total war is? can anyone comment on the status of those differences in the second one? I"m trying to figure out which to buy and i don't want to have annoying things like that in a new game when the old one was so good.

Thanks

Well I think most folks here agree that Medieval 2 certainly plays differently than MTW; there's simply too many changes between the two titles to deny it. Now if you were to ask which game does it "feel" closer to, then it would depend more on which one of us you're talking to.

I would say that the majority of players (including myself) do find that Medieval 2 is a lot closer to RTW than MTW in terms of both atmosphere and gameplay. That said, however, many people still enjoy M2TW on its own merits -- after all, it does include features (such as merchants and the Papal election system) that the original MTW never had.

In the end, I'd say it largely depends on what exactly you're looking for, and what you liked (and missed) most about MTW. As an admitted aficionado of the original game, it'd be easy for me to advise that you to just go out and buy it, but that would be doing you a disservice -- without having some idea of what features you appreciate the most, I'm reluctant to simply give you a blind recommendation.

[Rugon]

Mainly I just want to be able to give my people titles, and not worry about that weird movement system in Rome Total War. I'm finicky about that.

[Martok]

If that's the case, then I would in fact recommend you pick up the original MTW again. Medieval 2 has the same movement system as Rome, and there's no title system either.

[Rhyfelwyr]

You could download a mod some of them have scripts for giving titles.

[Ethelred Unread]

Stainless steel and Deus Lo Vult both add titles AFAIK.

IMHO MTW2 is better in almost every way features wise except with a weak AI. As this is pretty essential to a good gaming experience I'd look for a mod that improves the AI as much as possible!

There's some hosted here e.g. Lusted's or over at the other place.

As a rough comparison here's a list of how (again IMHO) MTW2 is better.

- More realistic sieges - e.g. defending walls, stone forts etc etc.
- More diverse troop roster (although this may be just the mods I'm playing)
- (if you can pull them off) awesome Heavy Cav charges
- Controllable AI reinforcements (though as said before sometimes the AI is a bit lame)

But you can't

- Assassinate your own family members
- have jedi kings
- give titles (at least in vanilla)
- Choose your heir



Was there a particular area of MTW that you liked?

[Rugon]

I just really liked the simplicity of the game. Everything was very straightforward, and I feel like Rome added in all of these extra bits that were unnecessary and made the game more complicated in a negative way.

hows the AI as compared to Medieval total war, better, worse, etc?

i'm probably getting the first one but i want to see what number 2 has to offer. is the movement system still frustrating? Is the map cartoony like it was in Rome or more realistic like MTW?

[Martok]

hows the AI as compared to Medieval total war, better, worse, etc?

The AI in MTW is better, especially the battle AI. The gap between the games' strategic-level AI is narrower, but MTW still holds the overall edge (it handles the Risk-style map better than Medieval 2's 3D map).

i'm probably getting the first one but i want to see what number 2 has to offer. is the movement system still frustrating? Is the map cartoony like it was in Rome or more realistic like MTW?

Personally, I find MTW to be superior in both regards. This is admittedly a more subjective issue, however, and I'm sure that just as many (if not more) will say that M2TW is better. Either way, your mileage may vary.

[pevergreen]

As a staunch long time defender of the new games, I do cede that MTW would probably be a better buy in terms of value and what you are looking for.

The battle/campaign AI is just not as good as MTW (which I do have ) but the simple fact of the battle sprites in MTW make it unplayable. I whole-heartedly recommend MTW for you Rugon, as long as you recruit camels.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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The thing they labelled M2TW is actually MiNO (Mediaeval in Name Only). It's a joke compared even to RTW (except prettified graphics) and no such comparison can be reasonably made with MTW. Do get MTW+VI. It will provide you with invaluable gameplay quality and atmosphere, especially with the various mods floating around.

If you come up with MiNO in a bargain bin or something like that, for no more than 10-15 dollars, you may wish to get it too and see for yourself. Beware of its expansion though, at any cost, which is malware DRM infested.
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[HopAlongBunny]

MTW is a better game; pretty much for all the reasons you cited in comparing RTW and MTW.

The AI is generally weaker in M2. The distractions are quite numerous too; spamming spies, priests and assassins just to keep level with the AI gets to be a real bore. I tried ignoring that once...every general was a deadman outside the city gates :p

Warning! MTW/VI has issues with any nVidia card beyond the 7k series; search the forums if you have an nVidia card to see what you might be facing; I have not found any fix that allows me to run MTW/VI with a 9600.

[Rugon]

Well I won a mac and was planning on using this program called bootcamp that enables you to run PC stuff on a Mac; I need something to play for those long hours between classes and the like in the dorm. Anyone know for sure if that will work? A hardcore gamer told me about it but second opinions are always god.

I think I"ll be getting medieval total war. I liked VI, but can you get huscarles and viking landsmen in the MTW game without getting VI, or must I get VI to use those particular units? (one of my usual tricks is to nip into scandinavia and produce thousands of em to give my military a nice starting off point). I remember liking a few other things about VI too but if its more than 20 bucks I'm not sure if I"ll go for it.

[Gyrfalcon]

Without VI, you can only produce the bog standard 'Viking' unit, not landsmen or huscarles.

[Martok]

Well I won a mac and was planning on using this program called bootcamp that enables you to run PC stuff on a Mac; I need something to play for those long hours between classes and the like in the dorm. Anyone know for sure if that will work? A hardcore gamer told me about it but second opinions are always god.

It's hard to say. While I personally don't know of anyone who runs MTW/VI on a Mac (with Bootcamp or a similar program), I do know of a couple folks that run *other* PC games on their Macs. Apparently they have no major problems, but then I've heard of other people who do.

I think I"ll be getting medieval total war. I liked VI, but can you get huscarles and viking landsmen in the MTW game without getting VI, or must I get VI to use those particular units? (one of my usual tricks is to nip into scandinavia and produce thousands of em to give my military a nice starting off point). I remember liking a few other things about VI too but if its more than 20 bucks I'm not sure if I"ll go for it.

As Gyrfalcon said, yes you do need Viking Invasion in order to train Huscarles and Landsmen in the main campaign. You can usually purchase the whole game (Medieval & VI combined) for about $15.00 - $20.00.

[Theodotos I]

M2TW is closer to the original Medieval, but the AI doesn't begin to compare. And, hey, I can understand why the change in the campaign map, I mean we moved away from[I]Risk[I], but why the change in battlefield intelligence? Those opponents were quite good, and the battles felt real.

[Rugon]

actually i just ebayed it and I can get the two of em combined for under 15 bucks maximum - closer to 10, including shipping. nice deal.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Congrats!
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[Mount Suribachi]

For all this talk of MTW having better AI, I have found MTW2 to be the toughest of the TW games - and I've been playing Shogun since day 1. Playing the Turks in Kingdoms right now and finding it to be a real challenge, just as I found playing Venice in MTW2 a challenge.

I think MTW has a better overall atmosphere, and whilst MTW2 has the shinier, prettier graphics, I find the sprites of MTW make it MUCH easier to see which unit is which on the battlefield.

[caravel]

I have yet to install M2TW (need a new PC first) but I can safely say that though the campaign map AI is very dodgy in RTW, the RTW campaign game is much more difficult than the MTW one. It's also much more frustrating and involves a lot more micromanagement however.

[Rugon]

Mount Suribachi, you mention sprites on the battlefield? someone else did that earlier, what are these sprites exactly?

[Mouzafphaerre]

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On the STW and MTW battle maps you don't have true 3-D models but 2-D sprites which give you the semi-successful illusion that you're playing with 3-D units. The scenery is 3-D though. Al so in RTW and MiNO the furthest zoom level uses sprites, automatically generated from the 3-D models (which concerns modders/modellers), instead of the models themselves.

I'm sure others could word it better but hth anyway.
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[Arcana]

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The thing they labelled M2TW is actually MiNO (Mediaeval in Name Only). It's a joke compared even to RTW (except prettified graphics) and no such comparison can be reasonably made with MTW. Do get MTW+VI. It will provide you with invaluable gameplay quality and atmosphere, especially with the various mods floating around.

If you come up with MiNO in a bargain bin or something like that, for no more than 10-15 dollars, you may wish to get it too and see for yourself. Beware of its expansion though, at any cost, which is malware DRM infested.
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Sorry, what? How is Kingdoms malware-infested? I've seen no evidence of such with my copy...
Also, I would like to hear your explanations for your slating of M2TW?

I do wish I could play the first MTW (I admit that I haven't), however my 8600GT prevents me...

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Kingdom comes with the malware rootkit SecuROM, which is labelled as copy protection (DRM). There's a lengthy discussion about it on the MiNO forum.
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