Large Stone Walls

**Aemilius Paulus** · 09-20-2008, 19:51

Unless I am mistaken, Large Stone walls provide a +5 law bonus, bu that is insignificant when you consider how much time and money it takes to build them. The Large Stone wall towers have more attack and range.

Actually, in my opinion, it is easier to kill the enemies coming out of one siege tower than four ladders. Soldiers seem to scale the walls a lot faster when scaling ladders. I am also not so sure if you can destroy the ladders with archer fire/towers, which is very much possible with siege towers.

Nevertheless, I would agree that the large walls are useless. You should invest in economic, law-giving buildings, which reduce corruption, as well public health buildings, which increase population, therefore increasing the taxes.

**Ravenic** · 09-20-2008, 19:55

On another note, I found out that the siege towers they build to attack Large Stone wals actually have ballista mounted in the top, which cleared out 75% of my elite royal guard unit trying to defend the wall before I could get them out of the way. Which was pretty stupid...

I'm 99% sure that the siege towers that scale normal stone walls don't come equipped with a monster machinegun-ballista. Which adds more incentive *not* to get the larger walls.

**Aemilius Paulus** · 09-20-2008, 20:20

Originally Posted by Ravenic

On another note, I found out that the siege towers they build to attack Large Stone wals actually have ballista mounted in the top, which cleared out 75% of my elite royal guard unit trying to defend the wall before I could get them out of the way. Which was pretty stupid...

I'm 99% sure that the siege towers that scale normal stone walls don't come equipped with a monster machinegun-ballista. Which adds more incentive *not* to get the larger walls.

Yeah, that's also true, although I never actually tested the ballistas. I try to pick places along the wall where there are none of the enemy units to oppose my soldiers. However, who would try to stop the enemy on the walls? I never fight battles on the walls because you lose so many men, no matter how elite your unit and how crappy the enemy unit is. I once fought the Lusotannan unit of Ambushers (120 men) on the walls with my 3 exp/1weap.&armour unit of Triarii. I won but was down to 56 Triarii from an original of 82. The best place to stop the enemy is at the entrances at the bottom of a tower or at the gates (and do not worry about tower fire; the towers cannot shoot at something so close to their base), where the enemy will be cut down, one by one, piece by piece. I have won defensive siege battles this way against all odds.

**Ravenic** · 09-20-2008, 22:28

Actually, I found that you take horrendous casualties if your men just sit there without you doing an action, but if you actually *click* the enemy unit once they're partially on the wall you'll take much fewer casualties, presumably because now your men are all trying to fight rather than one at a time.

I literally lost 50% of one unit until I realized I should click them, after which I only lost about another 10%, and that was with the majority of their army still remaining for me to kill.

**Aemilius Paulus** · 09-20-2008, 23:09

Originally Posted by Ravenic

Actually, I found that you take horrendous casualties if your men just sit there without you doing an action, but if you actually *click* the enemy unit once they're partially on the wall you'll take much fewer casualties, presumably because now your men are all trying to fight rather than one at a time.

I literally lost 50% of one unit until I realized I should click them, after which I only lost about another 10%, and that was with the majority of their army still remaining for me to kill.

Trust me, I watched my Triarii during the entire duration of that fight and I saw them fight and push the Ambushers back. They were not just sitting there and doing nothing. I ordered them to attack and they did.

BTW: One time I was sieging Alexandreia as the Romani and I had three units of Principes moving along a small stone wall when I noticed that the Principes began tacking casualties. I checked if there were any enemy towers or missile units, but there were none. I ignored the casualties and went on to perform another maneuver when suddenly the Principes began suffering more losses. It turned out that the Principes were actually falling from the walls for no apparent reason, other than the walls were a bit crowded.

**Rodrico Stak** · 09-20-2008, 23:18

Originally Posted by Ravenic

I'm 99% sure that the siege towers that scale normal stone walls don't come equipped with a monster machinegun-ballista. Which adds more incentive *not* to get the larger walls.

They do have a ballista, but I haven't noticed it being particularly devastating. The most that I have ever seen them kill before they get too close to fire is probably around 10 soldiers.

**Aemilius Paulus** · 09-20-2008, 23:40

Originally Posted by Rodrico Stak

They do have a ballista, but I haven't noticed it being particularly devastating. The most that I have ever seen them kill before they get too close to fire is probably around 10 soldiers.

The small towers do not have a ballista, if that is what you were talking about. Only the large ones, which are, in my opinion, too large to be historical.

**Rodrico Stak** · 09-21-2008, 00:24

Originally Posted by Aemilius Paulus

The small towers do not have a ballista, if that is what you were talking about. Only the large ones, which are, in my opinion, too large to be historical.

No, I think they do. Maybe it can only fire if the tower is manned by archers (as Makedonia a tower fired at me when it was being used by a unit of Toxotai).

As for the siege towers' sizes, I think you're probably right. There was the Helepolis built by Demetrius Polikertes (sp?) for the siege of Rhodes, but it was not by any means common, I would expect.

**MarcusAureliusAntoninus** · 09-21-2008, 00:40

I find defending regular stone walls easier than defending large stone walls. With regular walls, the AI builds ladders. With large stone walls, the AI seems to like to build a half dozen sapping points, which are much harder to defend against.

**Aemilius Paulus** · 09-21-2008, 00:54

Originally Posted by Rodrico Stak

No, I think they do. Maybe it can only fire if the tower is manned by archers (as Makedonia a tower fired at me when it was being used by a unit of Toxotai).

Are you sure about that? The Toxotai have nowhere to fire from, and plus they are not in the siege tower when it is moving. Not only this, but I have tried to perform the same trick myself and failed.

**Danest** · 09-21-2008, 01:12

The larger siege towers have absolutely fantastic firepower, and can blow away major units on the walls with incredible effectiveness and speed. I wish I could build them for all any any battle, they are that good. I wish I could use them on the defense, too. ;)

**Incitatus** · 09-21-2008, 02:53

Originally Posted by Aemilius Paulus

Are you sure about that? The Toxotai have nowhere to fire from, and plus they are not in the siege tower when it is moving. Not only this, but I have tried to perform the same trick myself and failed.

The smaller siege towers are able to fire arrows, I believe. You just need to select the tower and hit the fire at will button.