Got Merked by Gauls as rome (*Gasp*)

[AlexanderSextus]

Okay I fought the Aedui in Insubramrog yesterday, as Rome, and I lost. I had to, because they were heading for Bononia. It's about 241 BC, and it was my first Polybian legion. I had 2489 men, and they had 2886 men. They had 5 COUNT EM 5 units of gaesatae. i deployed in the Quincunx, as usual.

My hastati made a good account of themselves, at first. There were so many men on the other side that my principes had to march up and fill the gaps in the line. Ergo, the Hastati couldnt rotate. Repeated Charges from my Tribune and Campanian Cavalry on the left flank routed a third of their Army but i eventually lost, ended up going to the triarii, (who i recently made more realistic by halving their size, cost and upkeep) and My Extrordinarii eventually got surrounded, but they went down like Spartans, and cut down enough Gaesatae to make the Aedui respect our skill. I charged with my FM in the hope of saving the battle but he died in the process. Too bad, Because he had previously received a triumph for his battles in Sicily against the Qarthadastim.

What should i do if i get in this situation again where the enemy charges right through the gaps????

[mcantu]

you know, just because the Romans used the Quincunx formation doesnt mean they used it 100% of the time....

[AlexanderSextus]

yeah but when should you not use it, and then, what formation should you use?? Double line? Single line???

[Maeran]

Close your first line up by deploying the hastati in a 4 rank deep line.

Or principes first, since they have better armour.

The entire point of the Roman way of fighting was its adaptability, so be a true Roman and adapt it to meet the tactical needs in front of you.

[General Appo]

The problem is, in reality the enemy wouldn´t just charge trough the gaps in the quincunx. And if they did, they´d get cut down from 3 directions. It doesn´t always work like that in RTW, and it´s not really something EB can change. So you´ll pretty uch have to chose between going for the quincunx and except these things to happen every now and then, or adapt to the situation. I would adapt, after all, that´s what the Romans did. Just changing the normal quincunx a bit can create an entirely different situation.

[Vasiliyi]

Sometimes its better not to fight the battle at all. When outnumbered, and lets face it , outmatched, retreat. Set up on a hill and wait for them, to come to you. And dammit man, 5 units of those naked fanatics? As cocky as you may be, prepare yourself for those occasions, do velites sound familular at all? I hate to sound mean, but preparation for your battles are important. Roman legions weren't invincible. They, as someone mentioned before me adapted. Believe me, I've done the same as you before and I've learned my share of embarrasing defeats. Good luck with getting revenge..

[AlexanderSextus]

Sometimes its better not to fight the battle at all. When outnumbered, and lets face it , outmatched, retreat. Set up on a hill and wait for them, to come to you. And dammit man, 5 units of those naked fanatics? As cocky as you may be, prepare yourself for those occasions, do velites sound familular at all? I hate to sound mean, but preparation for your battles are important. Roman legions weren't invincible. They, as someone mentioned before me adapted. Believe me, I've done the same as you before and I've learned my share of embarrasing defeats. Good luck with getting revenge..

C'mon now, i've been playing EB for long enough to know that javelins in their back helps a lot. That plus a cavalry charge allowed my Extrordinarii to bring two of their Gaesatae units down to about 40 men. Out of 160. Thats pretty damn good. I'd say Extrordianarii are pretty damn good Gaesatae killers.

I'm no N00b, trust me. I just wasnt expecting Medio to send reinforcements, and if they hadn't i woulda crushed them. I had to fight the battle anyway, or there wouldve been a big stack sieging bononia as opposed to the half stack i actually had to deal with

I built another army later and beat them when they sieged bononia, without the reinforcements containing the other 4 units of nudists. they took one look at my full stack Polybian legion along with the AI Reinforcements of my last half-stack of Camillian troops, and hauled ass back to Medio.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Have you tried Accensi? They are the machine guns of the Antiquity (a least in the sense that they are deadly, not fast-firing). Especially when you use them to fire in the backs of those Gallic naturists.

[Vasiliyi]

In no way was I trying to insult you. I was just saying, if your fighting any army full of 5 naked fanatics, there shouldn't be any doubt that u would be fighting a tough battle. Believe me, I've lost some pretty tough battles myself.. Just learn your lesson and move on. I feel for you though. Those battles are devastating.

[cmacq]

Pick better ground further back. Always close the gaps before contact. Always present an attacker with as small a target as possible, this will provide you the opportunity to block and counter on their flanks with your reserve foot. Missle troops, missle troops, missle troop their shock troops as they close.


CmacQ

[Cullhwch]

Fight fire with fire. Recruit Neitos from your Cisalpine territories and have them hold the line against the Gaesatae.

[Recoil]

unlucky mate, i remember besieging mediolanium once and getting attacked by a garrison of 5, maybe even more gaesaetae as well. fun it was't

like you said though, javelins and cavalry in the back and just pray that things go in your favour. obviously it'd be a good idea to have your heaviest units engage them as they'll last longer and lose less and be sure to try and deal with everything else before them. other units get priority when i fight gaesaetae, since if i can rout the lighter troops and run them down i have more men to use against the nudists. im guessing you do all this as it is but i figured id just throw it out there in case. good luck, let us know how it goes

[Ibrahim]

If they are in a city, let them leave the gate. as they pass through the gate, send the accensi and leves on them-shockingly effective. I had a gate pile up with dead gaesatae in mediolanum. while they delay the enemy, send you infantry either to the rear to redeploy, or for them into a U round the gate. I prefer runnung for it. the rest I'd leave to you.

EDIT: you have to make em sally.

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

Well, not even the Romans can win EVERY battle. It's winning the war that counts.

The real strength of Rome lay not in winning every battle, but in never, ever giving up after losing one. Just build a second army and feed that into the Gestatae meatgrinder as well. And, if necessary, a third.

[penguinking]

This is why, when I play Rome, I make peace with the gauls and purchase Mediolanum from the Aedui. I try not to fight the Gauls until I have two full armies.

[-Praetor-]

What the hell, are there some people that don`t close the gaps of the first line of the quincux before the clash with the enemy??

The romanii closed the gaps, and formed a single line with the first row of the quincux. The second row (principes) remained as usual with the gaps open. When the first row was tired, they retreated through the gaps, and the principes closed them, and started fighting. And so on, until either the romans ran out of men, or the enemy got beaten...

Fighting with the gaps open is just.... i dunno... how`s the name of certain forum member around here lately?

[Praetor Diego]

If that is hard then better dont play as any of the Gauls. You will have to face armies composed only by Triarii+Principes+Extraordinari. Much harder than a few naked guys...
About your problem, you should try using a couple of cretan archers. Attack enemy backs with fire arrows. Plus, they are good in close combat.

[Cullhwch]

I've found the Gauls to be a lot better than the Camillan Romans, honestly. It's just that their economy is too weak. A few units of Gaesatae and Uirodusios supplementing a core of Bataroas and Iaosatae will rout the Romans without too much difficulty. Add in a few units of Leuce Epos and it's pure murder. Statswise, the Romans may be better, but the Gallic longsword's lethality absolutely cannot be overlooked. Likewise, the Leuce Epos don't appear to be that great according to their stats, but they routinely best Eqvites Romani in everything except absorbing missiles.

[Praetor Diego]

They have good units, but the economy is a biiiiig problem in the Gaul, so you will not be able to field large amounts of Gaesataes (at least early on campaign). Also from the begining the romans deploy almost purely heavy infantry... sometimes with chevrons... (BTW, there is any way to mod a little the unit cost to modify the IA preference when recruits troops?) Sorry for my english.

[Cullhwch]

I think that the only way to change AI recruitment preferences is through a faction's "personality" in the descr_strat file. Currently the SPQR's personality is set as "balanced caesar," which means that it'll rely on the heaviest infantry possible. Perhaps someone else can shed light onto what the other personalities mean for you, because I'm fairly clueless.

[Space_Ed]

Some people might disagree with this as some people might see it as taking liberties with the game but if i'm having serious trouble against solid infantry armies as the romans i have an extraordinarii army in three thick lines with about 4 units of merc gallic slingers and a good mounted general with lots of stars. That should be able to beat any heavy infantry army in europe around that time.

[Reno Melitensis]

Well AlexanderSextus here is a tip. When using the Quincunx in EB ( use it because EB is a historical mod and we fight historically ) against Sweboz, Gauls, Getai and Lusutanni, the best way to absorb their charge is to remove the skirmish mode from the Velites. Put the Hastati on fire at will, when their missile are exhausted charge, repeat with Principes, retreat the Velites behind the Triari. Also the best way to began the battle is by moving the cavalry on the ale forward and deploy them behind the enemy. The AI will always move a unit or two away from the battle line, to your advantage. The Campani and Ligurians are good at harassing the enemy. For a good charge on the rear, Exraordinarii and the Equites Consulares rock, never charge with Equites Romani on their own, they are only good at running down the enemy.

Cheers.

[hoom]

I've found the Gauls to be a lot better than the Camillan Romans, honestly

I agree.
Once Gaul is unified, you get at least the first reform & you have managed to enslave at least one big town (see below re population), the Gaulish armies have an embarrasment of very strong infantry types including Solduri, Milnaht & Gaesatae.
Then you get Nietos after the 2nd reform too

For me the problem early is not even so much economy as population.
I play on Huge unit size & with Botroas/Bataroas being big units that tend to take fairly high casualties its quite easy to deplete the populations of your towns.

[Cullhwch]

A few enslavements of Arretium, Roma, and Capua will restore whatever population deficit you had faced. I like to keep the Romans around for a long time as a means of training my Aedui generals and giving them the Romaneitas and Romaneitha traits.