Increasing command

[Mulceber]

Does anyone have any good advice for increasing the number of stars in a general's stats? I regularly fight the battles myself (usually don't auto-resolve) and for some reason, despite the fact that they often get the "good tactician" trait, their number of stars just doesn't increase. Anybody got some advice? -Mulceber

[Tarkus]

1. Fight alot of battles with even odds at best, and win.

2. He may have some other traits that reduce his command ability, so any positive effects from siginificant victories on the battefield are cancelled out.

3. Having said that, what's more important to an evolving leader and his army is the morale of his troops, and not his command stars. The level of command proficiency actually has relatively little to do with deciding the outcome...morale is where it's at.

Good luck!

[Mulceber]

All very good points. Also, I've heard people making reference to leaving your FM in a city with a school in it for a few years before sending them out to battle. Is that likely to make them more able to learn generalship in the field? -Mulceber

[Tarkus]

All very good points. Also, I've heard people making reference to leaving your FM in a city with a school in it for a few years before sending them out to battle. Is that likely to make them more able to learn generalship in the field? -Mulceber

Yeah, that definitely does make a difference...my current Faction Leader has never fought a battle but has considerable command ability as a result of his underlying characteristics and his long-standing FL status. But I still think, logically, that battlefield experience will go a long way towards making a legendary general.

My drunken, womanizing, narcissistic, foul-mouthed, disloyal SOB Appius Gallicus has made a career out of butchering many an enemy in the field...despite his rather abysmal managerial skills and his complete inability to exert any influence within the Roman governmental system, his battlefield leadership is second to none -- and he recently marched through Rome after receiving his Triumphus.

[Dumbass]

The level of command proficiency actually has relatively little to do with deciding the outcome...morale is where it's at.

Good luck!

I'm not sure why everyone thinks command has little to do with the outcome of battles, because it plays a much larger role than morale. Firstly, with each point of command, every unit within range of the general recieves +1 morale, +1 attack and defence. Also increasing the number of command stars and the influence of the character vastly increases the range. My 10 star, 10 influence commander's general inspiring range covers the whole of his army.

That means his whole army gains +10 morale, +10 defence and influence, plus the morale bonuses given through traits. So command plays a major role, and I don't understand why people keep stating it doesn't.

You'll probably notice that when fighting those 6 star rebel generals, that their troops fight much harder than they should do and are very hard to break. However, once you kill their general, they break much more easily, and do not fight very well. That's why I always make it a priority to kill the general.

[mcantu]

I'm not sure why everyone thinks command has little to do with the outcome of battles, because it plays a much larger role than morale. Firstly, with each point of command, every unit within range of the general recieves +1 morale, +1 attack and defence. Also increasing the number of command stars and the influence of the character vastly increases the range. My 10 star, 10 influence commander's general inspiring range covers the whole of his army.

That means his whole army gains +10 morale, +10 defence and influence, plus the morale bonuses given through traits. So command plays a major role, and I don't understand why people keep stating it doesn't.

You'll probably notice that when fighting those 6 star rebel generals, that their troops fight much harder than they should do and are very hard to break. However, once you kill their general, they break much more easily, and do not fight very well. That's why I always make it a priority to kill the general.

not quite right...

Just to clear this up ( as requested ;-) ), from the old code on my machine at CA the General's command modifier on attacks is still there in the last version, but it only applies to melee attacks and it is -inverted- so the quality of the defender's general is applied as bonus directionless defense for the defending soldier. It is also rescaled to range from -6 to +6, changing quickly at low bonus levels and then slowing down towards the top of the range. The idea was to limit the number of stacking bonusses which speed up the battles, i vaguely remember.

Also, the bonus is not limited by physical distance, and is supposed to represent a good general's ability to get superior performance from his troops through training in small scale maneuvers. The only way for this bonus to result in faster combat death rates rather than slower ones is if the defender's general has bad command traits...

If you want to test it, I would suggest a battle between some big peasant units, fighting the units 1v1 and timing the length of time to rout; then repeat giving each army a 10 star general. You should see a slower time-to-rout with the generals. In the end though 6 pts is not enough to make up huge troop quality differences, so don't expect to see miraculous differences.

the formula for morale radius of effect is: 30 m + 5 m * command + 2 m * influence

[Cullhwch]

You could do what I did and simply remove the incredibly complicated "becamebettergeneral" line of triggers from the relevant file. I substituted the Vanilla RTW GoodCommander triggers in their place and used GoodTactician and GoodLeader with lower odds to make a +2 jump less likely. This may hurt the roleplaying aspect a little bit, but it's much more satisfying to see Dennoros oi Neamha, conqueror of Gaul, Germany, Italy, and Spain as a 10-star demigod instead of some 3-star plodder.

[Dumbass]

I stand corrected, but command stars still make a big difference.

[Tarkus]

Mulceber, this is a topic that has received alot of attention in historical posts...I suggest you search the forums to get the full body of information. For example, check out this thread.

Yes, command stars do have a positive effect on the outcome of battles...especially in auto-calc. But when you're in control, you're much better off having a general that gives lots of morale bonuses (which boost the performance of his entire army) instead of one with lots of command stars (which boosts the performance of a subset of his army that is in closer proximity to him).

[mcantu]

Mulceber, this is a topic that has received alot of attention in historical posts...I suggest you search the forums to get the full body of information. For example, check out this thread.

Yes, command stars do have a positive effect on the outcome of battles...especially in auto-calc. But when you're in control, you're much better off having a general that gives lots of morale bonuses (which boost the performance of his entire army) instead of one with lots of command stars (which boosts the performance of a subset of his army that is in closer proximity to him).

you have it reversed...command stars give an entire army a bonus to defense; morale bonuses (not ones through traits though) affect units within a certain distance (30 m + 5 m * command + 2 m * influence) of the general

[Tarkus]

you have it reversed...command stars give an entire army a bonus to defense; morale bonuses (not ones through traits though) affect units within a certain distance of the general

Hmmm...in the thread I reference above, I quote from Foot:

"Morale affects all units on the battlefield, command only affects the morale of units within a small radius of your general."

Nothing personal ...but I believe Foot.

[mcantu]

IIRC, Foots comment was before Gerome clarified the way command works...

see this thread:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...42#post1677142

[Foot]

How else do you get morale bonuses except through traits? Through command stars? In which case Tarkus's comments stand as correct. He said (and I'm paraphrasing) that command stars give morale bonuses within a radius, whereas traits give a morale bonus for your entire army. Your comments that defence from command stars are applied across the entire army do not apply to his point.

As it is, if we started again, I think we would change our stance on command stars (in particular not give CS boosts to enemy generals, but instead give them morale boosts through traits). However we've moved on.

Foot

[mcantu]

i took his comment as meaning that morale bonuses from triats affect the entire army but bonuses from command stars only apply in close proximity to the general. although Geromes post is a little vague in areas, i take it to mean that command stars increase the defense stats of the entire army, while the morale bonus (based on the amount of stars? this is where its vague) affects units within a radius of (30 m + 5 m * command + 2 m * influence) from the general

we may all be saying the same thing in different ways...

[Tarkus]

we may all be saying the same thing in different ways...

Yeah, I think we are...and we've wandered away from Mulceber's original query...and probably scared him off in the process!

This is a bit of a confusing issue, with parallel issues of attack vs. defense and traits vs. stars wandering through this forum. A read through your linked thread, mcantu, including your quotes from JeromeGrasdyke, leads me to stand by my conclusion. I still think command stars are over-rated...

[Dumbass]

Yeah, I think we are...and we've wandered away from Mulceber's original query...and probably scared him off in the process!

This is a bit of a confusing issue, with parallel issues of attack vs. defense and traits vs. stars wandering through this forum. A read through your linked thread, mcantu, including your quotes from JeromeGrasdyke, leads me to stand by my conclusion. I still think command stars are over-rated...

Well I think they are extremely underated by a lot of people. The stat and morale bonuses they give in a large range can really pull you through incredible odds.

[Mykingdomforanos]

Did Jerome Grasdyke (is he a CA employee?) not just say that Command Stars do 2 things:

1: Raise or lower melee attack (or defence, based on difference between opposing generals stars?) on a scale of -6 to +6, this affects the entire army.

2: Raise morale, according to the formula he gave, this only applies to units within range of the general

Sorry, a bit of a necrodig but not sure this question has been resolved yet, certainly not in my little mind

[Valion]

Or you could try and do what i did, Get both 10 command stars and ALOT of morale bonus traits



His army owns everything

[Atraphoenix]

In MTW you are wiped out easily if your general has 1-2 stars while enemy has 2- or more stars then you.
In RTW you will enjoy killing enemy generals who has 9 stars with your 1 star general.
That is the difference.
but people like seeing stars. I found them useless but no idea in M2TW or Kingdoms...
but in autobattles stars are very effective

like 230 HA Vs 600 phalanx
1 star 4 star
crushing defeat

same with human player in battle map
max 50 casualty (half friendly fire )
heroic victory all enemy wiped out...

[Cute Wolf]

I never had any general who often play with his horse archers got stars lower than 5...... 2 often come from good tactician, 1 or 2 from ancillaries, and the rest is good leader status.... Damn with "lover of beauty" traits... so I always keep my campaigning general on field.... except when they become a 90th grandpa and... roleplay they are retired...

[General Aetius]

Command stars help but just because you don't have them doesn't mean your commander sucks. I would rather have the morale bonuses but getting xp is also helpful if you want your general to play an active part in battles.
whether my general has 1 or 5 stars I, as the human player, can usually hold my army together anyway. I think the command stars have more effect on the AI's ability to keep their armies from routing too quickly.
But if you like having stars auto-resolved battles seem to, at least for me, produce more command stars.

general Aetius

[A_Dane]

stars are quite usefull if you wanna auto resolve, else they don't seem to matter much.
had a rather surprising outcome of a battle i auto resolved. when you got an army with a decent general (3 star), 2 armenian spearmen, some hoplites, + slingers and archers you kinda expect to win vs, against a 7 star general with 2 hellenic spearmen right? instead i got a notice of a crushing defeat: my army killed around 90, and lost 490... reverted to an autosave and won losing 29 guys...

[Whatever Scortamareva]

This.

[Mikhail Mengsk]

Morale traits are better than command stars, but if you have many stars less than your enemy, you will feel the difference seeing your enemy's units fighting to the last man instead of routing.