thanks for all of the help. i think that i'll probably end up going with the Teutonic Order or the Crusaders this time around and then try to do some major turtling on an early era game with Aragon or Bohemia and see if i can drag the game out long enough to finally get to see the gothic units and/or Spanish lancers. i usually get bored with my early era games when it gets down to 8-10 factions left on the map and end up starting a new game.