Another School shooting in Finland

[Strike For The South]

Finland is not part of Scandinavia...

Finland needs to have another look at their gun laws...

Oh well, for every school shoot out, I noticed that the bullies play a bit more nice for a while... Not everything is bad.

This has to do with the society at large nothing to do with guns. I can't speak for Finland but here in America I have come to the conclusion that our society makes this happen mainly by the way we retard emotional expression esp. at a young age. I dont understand how people think legal firearms make people go crazy. It doesn't make sense

[Innocentius]

This has to do with the society at large nothing to do with guns. I can't speak for Finland but here in America I have come to the conclusion that our society makes this happen mainly by the way we retard emotional expression esp. at a young age. I dont understand how people think legal firearms make people go crazy. It doesn't make sense

While I do agree about that society bit... well, to use the words of Bill Hicks: "There is no connection between having a gun and shooting somebody with it... And you'd be a fool and a communist to make one."

[Kadagar_AV]

While I do agree about that society bit... well, to use the words of Bill Hicks: "There is no connection between having a gun and shooting somebody with it... And you'd be a fool and a communist to make one."

I can see one connection... if you dont have a gun, you cant shoot anyone...

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

I can see one connection... if you dont have a gun, you cant shoot anyone...

Doesn't matter.... He can still kill with a Knife. Yeah, you can disarm him, but he can still kill.

http://gaming.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=13807

He killed people WITH A KNIFE.... I didn't see normal people disarm him (unless I am wrong)....




(article is about if games cause it, but still explains what happened).

[Kadagar_AV]

Doesn't matter.... He can still kill with a Knife. Yeah, you can disarm him, but he can still kill.

http://gaming.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=13807

He killed people WITH A KNIFE.... I didn't see normal people disarm him (unless I am wrong)....




(article is about if games cause it, but still explains what happened).

You argue that it is as easy to kill people with a knife as with a gun? Or what?

[Husar]

Thanks for the explanation Krook, I wouldn't call it stress anymore once you cope with it but you're right, that kind of thing sounds sensible, would probably work for me as well.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

You argue that it is as easy to kill people with a knife as with a gun? Or what?

I argue it is easy to kill anyone with both a knife AND a gun, just a bit more easy with a gun then a knife, that's is what. And besides, if someone sneaks up on you with a knife and he is good... well who wins?

[Viking]

I argue it is easy to kill anyone with both a knife AND a gun, just a bit more easy with a gun then a knife, that's is what. And besides, if someone sneaks up on you with a knife and he is good... well who wins?

Compare the two scenarios:

1. a student with a gun enters a room and starts firing

2. a student with a knife enters a room and stabs a fellow student, and then tries to make his way to his next victim.

now give it a thought. A bit more easy you say?

[Kadagar_AV]

I argue it is easy to kill anyone with both a knife AND a gun, just a bit more easy with a gun then a knife, that's is what. And besides, if someone sneaks up on you with a knife and he is good... well who wins?

That is absurd.

As Koga no Goshi stated, imagine if someone enters a classroom and stabs someone... Then he goes on to the next... How long would it take for 2-3 guys to jump him and wrestle him down? You can only do so much with a knife... Also, the initial victims would most likely survive. You have to be really good with a knife (or lucky) to kill someone fast.

Like the way you see in the movies, that is BS...

Now, I have trained Silat... There we practise anti-knife drills hard.

If a knife expert would sneak up on me I wouldnt have a chance.

If a 22 year old punk would enter my classroom with a knife he'd very soon be sprawling on the floor with a broken arm. If I was in a bad mood, he'd have a punctured lung too:)

Imagine the same 22 year old punk with a gun, now, all my training wouldnt help me (well, tbh, actually i would have a reasonable chance fighting a guy with a .22 in above scenario, if he didnt shoot me first).

But that is beside the point.

[TevashSzat]

This has to do with the society at large nothing to do with guns. I can't speak for Finland but here in America I have come to the conclusion that our society makes this happen mainly by the way we retard emotional expression esp. at a young age. I dont understand how people think legal firearms make people go crazy. It doesn't make sense

Well, I would be perfectly fine with guns easily accessible to all should there be some very strict background/mental state checks of some sort.

But.....the government, as inefficient and mostly incompetent it is, will never be able to enforce it and it is too easy to buy guns illegally so many would say just outlaw guns outright.

"There is no connection between having a gun and shooting somebody with it... And you'd be a fool and a communist to make one."

Well, in China (communist gov), the homicide rate with guns is EXTREMELY low because almost no one has guns. Only higher level police and the army has guns. Other than organized crime, most criminals only use knifes and crowbars and stuff like that which can only do so much damage.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Louis makes a good point about society.

Decades ago we never had this in America. And we had kids legally bring guns to school for target practice and hunting after school

But it's not some BS sort of 'its society's fault because they failed these kids' - society didn't hold these kids accountable enough and didn't scorn and deride the pathetic idea of killing others before killing yourself.

The media hurts too; they give every single killer the fame that helps to attract more.

The names of these killers should never be spoken, no images should ever be shown or analysis into their lives proclaimed, no writings of theirs should be released to the public, no grave should be allowed them. Their lives should be blanked out so that they have less lasting impact on the world than a minimum wage janitor.

CR

[Koga No Goshi]

Louis makes a good point about society.

Decades ago we never had this in America. And we had kids legally bring guns to school for target practice and hunting after school

But it's not some BS sort of 'its society's fault because they failed these kids' - society didn't hold these kids accountable enough and didn't scorn and deride the pathetic idea of killing others before killing yourself.

The media hurts too; they give every single killer the fame that helps to attract more.

The names of these killers should never be spoken, no images should ever be shown or analysis into their lives proclaimed, no writings of theirs should be released to the public, no grave should be allowed them. Their lives should be blanked out so that they have less lasting impact on the world than a minimum wage janitor.

CR

I agree with you but I think what's missing from this argument is that kids don't do it just for fame. I think that kids who have already given up and feel like they will never not feel so angry and helpless and belittled and hopeless then figure well, if I'm going to die anyway, maybe some infamy isn't so bad. Especially if violence can be directed at the people who (rightly or wrongly) they consider responsible for whatever they are feeling. So, as long as society tolerates things like bullying, pecking orders, the alienation and systematic mistreatment of "black sheep" kids in the classroom (nerds misfits whatever) and neighbors, friends, family members and community figures (teachers coworkers etc.) ignore child abuse and child neglect on the part of parents (and it's VERY rare for seriosuly NO ONE to ever know that a child is being abused-- much more likely several people knew but didn't want to get involved) then chiding the shooters after the fact will never solve or stop anything.

[Hosakawa Tito]

The saddest part is that the police had brought him in for questioning and then determined they had no reason to hold him or confiscate his weapons and let him go.

[Mouzafphaerre]

.

.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Well, sounds like some Finnish politicians want to ban handguns, which is missing the point.

If the next nutjob uses a shotgun, what will they do then? And if the next guy uses a rifle, will they ban those as well? And when another makes a homemade bomb, will they ban cars so noone has reason to get gasoline?

Koga is right in that more needs to be done to crack down on bullying and child abuse.

CR

[Martok]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Vis-a-vis geography: Actually, it was taught in my school distrcit that Finland *is* part of Scandinavia -- despite the majority of Finns being more closely related to Hungarians & Kazakhs than Danes, Norwegians, & Swedes. I'm not sure why that is, though.

The saddest part is that the police had brought him in for questioning and then determined they had no reason to hold him or confiscate his weapons and let him go.

Yeah, I wondered about that. I figured that at the very least, they would've confiscated his firearms.

[Innocentius]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Vis-a-vis geography: Actually, it was taught in my school distrcit that Finland *is* part of Scandinavia -- despite the majority of Finns being more closely related to Hungarians & Kazakhs than Danes, Norwegians, & Swedes. I'm not sure why that is, though.

Well, Finns are finno-ugrians (just like Hungarians, Karelians, Estonians etc.) while Swedes, Danes and Norwegians are germanics (just like Germans). Scandinavia is a geographic entity consisting of the peninsula formed by Sweden and Norway, and really has nothing to do with ethnicity.

The saddest part is that the police had brought him in for questioning and then determined they had no reason to hold him or confiscate his weapons and let him go.

They had no legal support to do so, and if you're answer to that is "But still", that leads us into the debate on what rules should be broken and what rules shouldn't be broken.

[Sigurd]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Vis-a-vis geography: Actually, it was taught in my school distrcit that Finland *is* part of Scandinavia -- despite the majority of Finns being more closely related to Hungarians & Kazakhs than Danes, Norwegians, & Swedes. I'm not sure why that is, though.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Are you sure they didn't call it a Nordic country? Finland is a Nordic country (1 of 5) but not part of Scandinavia (3 nations).

Yeah, I wondered about that. I figured that at the very least, they would've confiscated his firearms.

On the way back from work I heard they had apprehended a Swedish 16 year old for the possesion of illegal weapons and broadcasting hate videos on youtube (In Sweden). They are not taking any chances with copycats.

I also heard that the police officer that had questioned this madman the day before he killed 10 people and let him go and let him keep his weapons are under psycriatic help. Too much for the poor guy.

[Adrian II]

The names of these killers should never be spoken, no images should ever be shown or analysis into their lives proclaimed, no writings of theirs should be released to the public, no grave should be allowed them. Their lives should be blanked out so that they have less lasting impact on the world than a minimum wage janitor.

Which is totally at odds with your views about individual freedom. Time for a rethink.

I agree with the view that if youngsters perpetrate such horrible crimes it is usually because society has either failed them, failed to stop them, of failed those who would have been able to stop them. But there is no way to build watertight guarantees into society without destryig its very fundament of liberty and individual responsibility.

Crime is here to stay. It will always be a problem. All we can do is try to contain it in such a way that neither crime nor law enforcement stifle the healthy functioning of society.

[Koga No Goshi]

You have to remember that we, as Americans, live in a society where half the people who have some position of power or authority don't even really believe in mental illness. A few years ago I saw a Congressperson refer to panic disorder as being "a nervous son of a (female dog)." With those kinds of attitudes around it honestly is not difficult for social networks and society to fail to intervene in the case of troubled kids.

[Fragony]

Great. This piece of ^%*%^* called a friend before ending his miserable life, 'I have just killed 10 people, going to kill myselve now'. According to eye-witnesses he started shooting blindly, and finnished of the wounded with a shot in the head. He said he 'enjoyed seeing people bleed'. How narcistic can you be, disgusting. So angry.

[Husar]

Sounds like me.
I mean when I was still young and stupid and someone annoyed me greatly I wanted to see them bleed or I wasn't satisfied, maybe someone annoyed him greatly and he never grew up like I did?
(I'm nice like a little kitten now, no really. )

[Koga No Goshi]

Great. This piece of ^%*%^* called a friend before ending his miserable life, 'I have just killed 10 people, going to kill myselve now'. According to eye-witnesses he started shooting blindly, and finnished of the wounded with a shot in the head. He said he 'enjoyed seeing people bleed'. How narcistic can you be, disgusting. So angry.

*Shrug* You can despise them for being so mentally imbalanced, but I think that no one gets that far without a lot of people turning a blind eye, not caring, and not stepping in. I felt the same anger you seem to feel about school shootings until I read the Time (or was it People? I think it was Time) front feature about the Columbine shooters. Both kids, but the "leader" kid, Eric, in particular, had a very long history of troubled behavior that his very authoritarian military father pretty much ignored, covered up for, and refused to consider therapy for.