Another School shooting in Finland

[Crazed Rabbit]

Louis makes a good point about society.

Decades ago we never had this in America. And we had kids legally bring guns to school for target practice and hunting after school

But it's not some BS sort of 'its society's fault because they failed these kids' - society didn't hold these kids accountable enough and didn't scorn and deride the pathetic idea of killing others before killing yourself.

The media hurts too; they give every single killer the fame that helps to attract more.

The names of these killers should never be spoken, no images should ever be shown or analysis into their lives proclaimed, no writings of theirs should be released to the public, no grave should be allowed them. Their lives should be blanked out so that they have less lasting impact on the world than a minimum wage janitor.

CR

[Koga No Goshi]

Louis makes a good point about society.

Decades ago we never had this in America. And we had kids legally bring guns to school for target practice and hunting after school

But it's not some BS sort of 'its society's fault because they failed these kids' - society didn't hold these kids accountable enough and didn't scorn and deride the pathetic idea of killing others before killing yourself.

The media hurts too; they give every single killer the fame that helps to attract more.

The names of these killers should never be spoken, no images should ever be shown or analysis into their lives proclaimed, no writings of theirs should be released to the public, no grave should be allowed them. Their lives should be blanked out so that they have less lasting impact on the world than a minimum wage janitor.

CR

I agree with you but I think what's missing from this argument is that kids don't do it just for fame. I think that kids who have already given up and feel like they will never not feel so angry and helpless and belittled and hopeless then figure well, if I'm going to die anyway, maybe some infamy isn't so bad. Especially if violence can be directed at the people who (rightly or wrongly) they consider responsible for whatever they are feeling. So, as long as society tolerates things like bullying, pecking orders, the alienation and systematic mistreatment of "black sheep" kids in the classroom (nerds misfits whatever) and neighbors, friends, family members and community figures (teachers coworkers etc.) ignore child abuse and child neglect on the part of parents (and it's VERY rare for seriosuly NO ONE to ever know that a child is being abused-- much more likely several people knew but didn't want to get involved) then chiding the shooters after the fact will never solve or stop anything.

[Hosakawa Tito]

The saddest part is that the police had brought him in for questioning and then determined they had no reason to hold him or confiscate his weapons and let him go.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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[Crazed Rabbit]

Well, sounds like some Finnish politicians want to ban handguns, which is missing the point.

If the next nutjob uses a shotgun, what will they do then? And if the next guy uses a rifle, will they ban those as well? And when another makes a homemade bomb, will they ban cars so noone has reason to get gasoline?

Koga is right in that more needs to be done to crack down on bullying and child abuse.

CR

[Fragony]

Koga is right in that more needs to be done to crack down on bullying and child abuse.

Only to have the same thing happening in the less protective realm that is profesional life, you will always have bullies and victims c'est la vie. Take it for what it is, it's just a copycat. Dead one now. bye.

[Husar]

Only to have the same thing happening in the less protective realm that is profesional life, you will always have bullies and victims c'est la vie. Take it for what it is, it's just a copycat. Dead one now. bye.

And you will always have people who are against bullies and don't accept your conservative stance on this, c'est la vie. Deal with it.

[Koga No Goshi]

Well, sounds like some Finnish politicians want to ban handguns, which is missing the point.

If the next nutjob uses a shotgun, what will they do then? And if the next guy uses a rifle, will they ban those as well? And when another makes a homemade bomb, will they ban cars so noone has reason to get gasoline?

Koga is right in that more needs to be done to crack down on bullying and child abuse.

CR

Yup I mean guns laying all around where kids have easy access is not exactly something that is helpful, but if a country really did get rid of all of its guns then a school shooter would use explosives made at home or bladed weapons or something. The underlying problem is social, and even here in America we have done almost nothing about it except a series of laws that further ostracized troubled kids and suspend them if they show any sign of hostility.

[Martok]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Vis-a-vis geography: Actually, it was taught in my school distrcit that Finland *is* part of Scandinavia -- despite the majority of Finns being more closely related to Hungarians & Kazakhs than Danes, Norwegians, & Swedes. I'm not sure why that is, though.

The saddest part is that the police had brought him in for questioning and then determined they had no reason to hold him or confiscate his weapons and let him go.

Yeah, I wondered about that. I figured that at the very least, they would've confiscated his firearms.

[Innocentius]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Vis-a-vis geography: Actually, it was taught in my school distrcit that Finland *is* part of Scandinavia -- despite the majority of Finns being more closely related to Hungarians & Kazakhs than Danes, Norwegians, & Swedes. I'm not sure why that is, though.

Well, Finns are finno-ugrians (just like Hungarians, Karelians, Estonians etc.) while Swedes, Danes and Norwegians are germanics (just like Germans). Scandinavia is a geographic entity consisting of the peninsula formed by Sweden and Norway, and really has nothing to do with ethnicity.

The saddest part is that the police had brought him in for questioning and then determined they had no reason to hold him or confiscate his weapons and let him go.

They had no legal support to do so, and if you're answer to that is "But still", that leads us into the debate on what rules should be broken and what rules shouldn't be broken.

[Sigurd]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Vis-a-vis geography: Actually, it was taught in my school distrcit that Finland *is* part of Scandinavia -- despite the majority of Finns being more closely related to Hungarians & Kazakhs than Danes, Norwegians, & Swedes. I'm not sure why that is, though.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Are you sure they didn't call it a Nordic country? Finland is a Nordic country (1 of 5) but not part of Scandinavia (3 nations).

Yeah, I wondered about that. I figured that at the very least, they would've confiscated his firearms.

On the way back from work I heard they had apprehended a Swedish 16 year old for the possesion of illegal weapons and broadcasting hate videos on youtube (In Sweden). They are not taking any chances with copycats.

I also heard that the police officer that had questioned this madman the day before he killed 10 people and let him go and let him keep his weapons are under psycriatic help. Too much for the poor guy.

[Martok]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Well, Finns are finno-ugrians (just like Hungarians, Karelians, Estonians etc.) while Swedes, Danes and Norwegians are germanics (just like Germans). Scandinavia is a geographic entity consisting of the peninsula formed by Sweden and Norway, and really has nothing to do with ethnicity.

Exactly. Which again, is why don't really understand why Finland has always been lumped in with the rest of the Scandinavian nations. For convenience's sake, probably, but that's only a guess on my part.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Are you sure they didn't call it a Nordic country? Finland is a Nordic country (1 of 5) but not part of Scandinavia (3 nations).

Yep, I'm sure. My geography textbooks actually labeled Finland as a Scandinavian country, even though it's not part of the peninsula proper.

I also heard that the police officer that had questioned this madman the day before he killed 10 people and let him go and let him keep his weapons are under psycriatic help. Too much for the poor guy.

Gah. Yeah, I can't imagine how he feels right now. Talk about guilt....

[Adrian II]

The names of these killers should never be spoken, no images should ever be shown or analysis into their lives proclaimed, no writings of theirs should be released to the public, no grave should be allowed them. Their lives should be blanked out so that they have less lasting impact on the world than a minimum wage janitor.

Which is totally at odds with your views about individual freedom. Time for a rethink.

I agree with the view that if youngsters perpetrate such horrible crimes it is usually because society has either failed them, failed to stop them, of failed those who would have been able to stop them. But there is no way to build watertight guarantees into society without destryig its very fundament of liberty and individual responsibility.

Crime is here to stay. It will always be a problem. All we can do is try to contain it in such a way that neither crime nor law enforcement stifle the healthy functioning of society.

[Koga No Goshi]

You have to remember that we, as Americans, live in a society where half the people who have some position of power or authority don't even really believe in mental illness. A few years ago I saw a Congressperson refer to panic disorder as being "a nervous son of a (female dog)." With those kinds of attitudes around it honestly is not difficult for social networks and society to fail to intervene in the case of troubled kids.

[Fragony]

Great. This piece of ^%*%^* called a friend before ending his miserable life, 'I have just killed 10 people, going to kill myselve now'. According to eye-witnesses he started shooting blindly, and finnished of the wounded with a shot in the head. He said he 'enjoyed seeing people bleed'. How narcistic can you be, disgusting. So angry.

[Husar]

Sounds like me.
I mean when I was still young and stupid and someone annoyed me greatly I wanted to see them bleed or I wasn't satisfied, maybe someone annoyed him greatly and he never grew up like I did?
(I'm nice like a little kitten now, no really. )

[Koga No Goshi]

Great. This piece of ^%*%^* called a friend before ending his miserable life, 'I have just killed 10 people, going to kill myselve now'. According to eye-witnesses he started shooting blindly, and finnished of the wounded with a shot in the head. He said he 'enjoyed seeing people bleed'. How narcistic can you be, disgusting. So angry.

*Shrug* You can despise them for being so mentally imbalanced, but I think that no one gets that far without a lot of people turning a blind eye, not caring, and not stepping in. I felt the same anger you seem to feel about school shootings until I read the Time (or was it People? I think it was Time) front feature about the Columbine shooters. Both kids, but the "leader" kid, Eric, in particular, had a very long history of troubled behavior that his very authoritarian military father pretty much ignored, covered up for, and refused to consider therapy for.

[Guildenstern]

I think that no one gets that far without a lot of people turning a blind eye, not caring, and not stepping in.

I think that the warning signs may be very vague and it's hard to find a potential time bomb such as this one.

[Koga No Goshi]

I think that the warning signs may be very vague and it's hard to find a potential time bomb such as this one.

I don't think that's true in the big majority of cases. Look at the Virginia tech kid. On meds, even his roommate said he NEVER TALKED, was on antidepressants and antipsychotics yet walked straight into a gun store and, perfectly legally, walked out with firearms with no sort of check. No one can say the system didn't drop the ball in cases like that.