Who Won the First Presidential Debate?

[Divinus Arma]

McCain?
Obama?

[seireikhaan]

Obama on a teency margin.

[Marshal Murat]

I think McCain won.

While I've been told his arguments were shallow and Bush-esque, it did seem more effective than Barack Obama. By the end of the argument, he came off as someone who bashes Bush (fairly) and Republicans rather than addressing the situation.

[ICantSpellDawg]

McCain. I waited with bated breath and wasn't stressed by the end.

[Koga No Goshi]

I'm a Democrat but I'll admit John McCain REALLY behaved himself, you could tell he was heavily vetted and he had no big irritable outbursts and moments of sheer stupidity that you can find all over Youtube from his various interviews.

But I do think it went Obama, for two reasons. One, McCain diverged from Bush on nothing of any substance whatsoever. He admitted the "mistakes" of the Bush Administration many times but apparently the solution to that is just keep the same economic AND foreign policies. I'm not sure how that constitutes good answers to how he would do things differently or do things better. Two, he incessantly ascribed false or misplaced quotes to Obama (he did the same thing when he referred to Akmedinijad saying "wipe Israel off the map" in his "most recent interview", which he didn't do) and Obama just stuck to the facts. (Note McCain grumbled a few times when Obama was quoting him, but never said "I didn't say that" or "that's untrue.") You kinda lose points automatically in my book if your "argument" rests on false assertions about the other guy's stances.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Voted tie, in that they both performed equally well.

[Lemur]

Tie. No obvious winner or loser. No major gaffes by either man.

[PanzerJaeger]

McCain. I was pleasantly surprised. I guess Barry needs more than 3 days prep work to catch him... experience counts for something.

[KukriKhan]

Obama on a teency margin.

That's how it looked on my TV set, too.

Sadly (for us), neither guy took the risk of trying to paint the rest of america into their 'vision for the future' - in fact, I don't remember much 'vision'-talk at all; just point-counter point, 'let's compare voting records' -type talk. A lot like the discussions we have here, leading to inconclusive results.

[CrossLOPER]

"Everyone is a rogue state supported by Russia." wins again!

[ICantSpellDawg]

Did anyone else count the amount of times Obama said "senator mccain is absolutely right", or some other statement saying roughly the same thing? I lost count at 50. That is a useful tool when you use it sparingly, but use it so repetitively and it sounds like you're voting for him. Hell, I couldn't even say it that many times about McCain and I AM voting for him.

I found an article with a similar sentiment: link


“I think Senator McCain’s absolutely right that we need more responsibility…”

“Senator McCain is absolutely right that the earmarks process has been abused…”

“He’s also right that oftentimes lobbyists and special interests are the ones that are introducing these…requests…”

“John mentioned the fact that business taxes on paper are high in this country, and he’s absolutely right…”

“John is right we have to make cuts…”

“Senator McCain is absolutely right that the violence has been reduced as a consequence of the extraordinary sacrifice of our troops and our military families…”

“John — you’re absolutely right that presidents have to be prudent in what they say…”

“Senator McCain is absolutely right, we cannot tolerate a nuclear Iran…”


I thought McCain "didn't get it"?

[m52nickerson]

Did anyone else count the amount of times Obama said "senator mccain is absolutely right", or some other statement saying roughly the same thing? I lost count at 50. That is a useful tool when you use it sparingly, but use it so repetitively and it sounds like you're voting for him. Hell, I couldn't even say it that many times about McCain and I AM voting for him.

I found an article with a similar sentiment: link


“I think Senator McCain’s absolutely right that we need more responsibility…”

“Senator McCain is absolutely right that the earmarks process has been abused…”

“He’s also right that oftentimes lobbyists and special interests are the ones that are introducing these…requests…”

“John mentioned the fact that business taxes on paper are high in this country, and he’s absolutely right…”

“John is right we have to make cuts…”

“Senator McCain is absolutely right that the violence has been reduced as a consequence of the extraordinary sacrifice of our troops and our military families…”

“John — you’re absolutely right that presidents have to be prudent in what they say…”

“Senator McCain is absolutely right, we cannot tolerate a nuclear Iran…”


I thought McCain "didn't get it"?

McCain doesn't get it on his tax plan or health care plan, or over all. Obama agreed with him on single points he got right. In many of those responses Obama went on to show how McCain had gone against his own statements or added that there was more to it.

I still want to know why McCain would not look at Obama?

[ICantSpellDawg]

I still want to know why McCain would not look at Obama?

Yea, I didn't like that. Obama made initially awkward attempts to look at him, because he was made fun of for not looking at Hillary - and then did it without the awkwardness.

[woad&fangs]

I think it is rather telling that in a debate on foreign policy McCain was obnoxious, flexible with the truth, ignored Obama except to attack him, and continued to paint an "us vs them" outlook on the world. That's not the kind of person I want conducting diplomacy with world leaders.

That "preconditions/preperations" semantics argument was really annoying. Obama clarified his stance for McCain several times but McCain still kept insisting that Obama was going to "have a tea party" with A-jad, Chavez, and Putin.

I didn't watch the economics portion of the debate so I'm not sure who did better at that.

All that being said, it was a fairly even debate with Obama being slightly better on substance. McCain definately did a good job presenting himself as the experienced candidate.

One last thing, McCain was very moving and inspiring when talking about taking care of veterans.

[ICantSpellDawg]

I think it is rather telling that in a debate on foreign policy McCain was obnoxious, flexible with the truth, ignored Obama except to attack him, and continued to paint an "us vs them" outlook on the world. That's not the kind of person I want conducting diplomacy with world leaders.

That "preconditions/preperations" semantics argument was really annoying. Obama clarified his stance for McCain several times but McCain still kept insisting that Obama was going to "have a tea party" with A-jad, Chavez, and Putin.

I didn't watch the economics portion of the debate so I'm not sure who did better at that.

All that being said, it was a fairly even debate with Obama being slightly better on substance. McCain definately did a good job presenting himself as the experienced candidate.

One last thing, McCain was very moving and inspiring when talking about taking care of veterans.

The reality is that their positions on foreign policy are not very different. The arguments are largely semantic. I trust McCain's FP judgment more because he wasn't a state senator 4 years ago, was active in the Navy, has a better understanding of logistics, and has made sound decisions in the past. Obama's decision not to go into Iraq was technically the right decision, but it wasn't based on foreign intelligence - rather the idea that even if they had the programs they were not priority. A stopped clock is right twice a day. With experience I think Obama has the right outlook of foreign policy. I would probably vote for him 10 years from now after his stance on abortion becomes softer and he gets a bit more experience.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I thought McCain "didn't get it"?

You would be absolutely right to say that

[Lemur]

Well here I am, utterly convinced that the debate was a draw, but these durn pollsters are suggesting that it was a slam-bam for Obama. Shows you what I know; I'm good at knowing my own mind, and absolute junk at predicting how things will go over with the general public.

Obama went from a +18 on "understanding your needs and problems" before the debate to a +56 (!) afterward. And he went from a -9 on "prepared to be president" to a +21.

-edit-

Also note that McCain couldn't bear to look at Obama even when shaking hands. That's just weird, man.

One possible explanation: "I think people really are missing the point about McCain's failure to look at Obama. McCain was afraid of Obama. It was really clear--look at how much McCain blinked in the first half hour. I study monkey behavior--low ranking monkeys don't look at high ranking monkeys. In a physical, instinctive sense, Obama owned McCain tonight and I think the instant polling reflects that."

I'm naturally inclined to agree with any sentence that contains the word "monkey."

[Redleg]

I listen to parts of it on the radio as I was able to - had to get a train off the ground during the debate. I would say from what I heard on the radio that McCain handled himself just marginally better then Obama. The bits I was able to hear, Obama wanted to interupt McCain several times to "Clear the Record"

But as I said I only heard about 10 minutes of the debate so I dont know how the rest of it went

[m52nickerson]

I listen to parts of it on the radio as I was able to - had to get a train off the ground during the debate. I would say from what I heard on the radio that McCain handled himself just marginally better then Obama. The bits I was able to hear, Obama wanted to interupt McCain several times to "Clear the Record"

But as I said I only heard about 10 minutes of the debate so I dont know how the rest of it went

Red that is to bad, it was a good debate. I hope you get a chance to see it as a whole.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Well here I am, utterly convinced that the debate was a draw, but these durn pollsters are suggesting that it was a slam-bam for Obama. Shows you what I know; I'm good at knowing my own mind, and absolute junk at predicting how things will go over with the general public.

Obama went from a +18 on "understanding your needs and problems" before the debate to a +56 (!) afterward. And he went from a -9 on "prepared to be president" to a +21.

I figured he'd get a bump in "prepared to be president" but the other is a nice surprise--I figured people already knew that

[ICantSpellDawg]

Well here I am, utterly convinced that the debate was a draw, but these durn pollsters are suggesting that it was a slam-bam for Obama. Shows you what I know; I'm good at knowing my own mind, and absolute junk at predicting how things will go over with the general public.

Obama went from a +18 on "understanding your needs and problems" before the debate to a +56 (!) afterward. And he went from a -9 on "prepared to be president" to a +21.

Go with your first impulse. If you feel it was a draw, it was probably a draw. Pollsters love to inject things in that might not otherwise exist. Ask your friends what they thought. I think Obama will win the election outright. It would be pathetic if he didn't - maybe even more so than Kerry's loss.

[Gregoshi]

I only heard what I guess were the closing remarks (last 5-10 minutes) on the radio. From what I heard, I liked the vibe I was getting from Obama. He seemed more consiliatory while McCain came off as combative. I did not like McCain's attitude at all. If he's going to get anything accomplished as President, he's going to have to learn how to work with a Democratic congress. A combative nature isn't going to help this country. We've already had 16 years (Clinton/Bush) of extreme divisiveness, and I tire of it. Not looking at your opponent during the debate? That's just childish. How about a little cooperation ladies and gentlemen? Country first and all that. Anyway, that's my take based on less than 10 minutes of debate audio. Now to track down the whole debate to watch/listen.

Oh, one final comment: it is a bit refreshing this election that at least I don't detest either candidate.

[Big_John]

i thought it was obama's fairly easily. i had no expectations about performances going in. mccain was mainly condescending and blustery (which plays well for some, i imagine), obama was mainly even-keeled and agreeable (not deferential, mind you). obama made better use of specifics. obama seemed more 'presidential'.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

If I may, I would like to re-emphasise KukriKhan's point about smileys made in another thread.

I'm assuming, because it's Lemur, that this comment was made in jest. Yet let us reflect what mayhem would have ensued had a similar monkey allusion been made with regard to Senator Obama.

Without any smiley this triggered the Itchy Mod Finger* to which my esteemed colleague referred earlier.

Please can we get into the habit of adding smileys to comments that might be misinterpreted.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

* I know, but it is treatable with drugs and alcohol.

Well, lemur's are monkeys right? Or did I read that wrong...

[CrossLOPER]

Well, lemur's are monkeys right? Or did I read that wrong...

Primates.

[Divinus Arma]

If I may, I would like to re-emphasise KukriKhan's point about smileys made in another thread.

I'm assuming, because it's Lemur, that this comment was made in jest. Yet let us reflect what mayhem would have ensued had a similar monkey allusion been made with regard to Senator Obama.

Without any smiley this triggered the Itchy Mod Finger* to which my esteemed colleague referred earlier.

Please can we get into the habit of adding smileys to comments that might be misinterpreted.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

* I know, but it is treatable with drugs and alcohol.

Easy, Oh wrathful one.

Mandatory Smiley:

[Divinus Arma]

Actually on topic:

While watching the debate on FOX NEWS, being mindful of each outlets bias, I was fascinated to see that the use of the split screen candidate shot was only employed while John McCain was speaking. This split screen showed Barak Obama squirming and smirking, frustrated, and generally dissatisified with John McCain comments. Frankly, it made Barak Obama look a bit emotionally attached to the comments. I was delightfully surprised to my amusement that FOX NEWS would not use the split screen to show John McCain's Reactions to Obama.

For half a second I thought I was being overparanoid and overly aware of FOX NEWS media bias. Again, I was delightfully entertained with the following information from this morning's L.A. TIMES Editorial page:

It was a debate, mostly civil though occasionally cranky, between a tough old man and a polished young one. McCain revealed more of himself in that arena, wincing and grimacing during the split-screen shots while Obama was speaking.

Reference: L.A. Times at: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/...,4778370.story

Not ONCE did FOX NEWS show a split screen when Obama was speaking to show McCain's.

Here we see the media bias of both the liberal L.A. TIMES and the conservative FOX NEWS. It was fun to see it so glaringly obvious.


Tee hee hee. Mwa ha ha!

[Koga No Goshi]

Did anyone else count the amount of times Obama said "senator mccain is absolutely right", or some other statement saying roughly the same thing? I lost count at 50. That is a useful tool when you use it sparingly, but use it so repetitively and it sounds like you're voting for him. Hell, I couldn't even say it that many times about McCain and I AM voting for him.

1 - Yes, even Democrats say they get aggravated with how "polite" Democratic candidates need to be, and how they always keep the gloves on. But the polls backfire on us big time when we act more like Republicans in campaigns.

2 - Agreeing with Senator McCain (this is a purely "campaign tactics" observation) probably doesn't win him any Republican votes, and probably doesn't cost him any Democratic votes, but it does resonate positively with the independents.

3 - I would prefer someone who can admit when the other party was correct on something, rather than someone who will bullheadedly disagree with anything coming out of the mouth of someone from the opposite party.

4 - Yes it did open Obama up to the repeatedly abused response from McCain that Obama "doesn't understand", trying to inflect inexperience or naivete on Obama. But the only people who will respond strongly to that are superficial people who think that McCain "seeming" more experienced makes up for the fact that, like all the other "experienced" people like Rumsfeldt, he has incredibly poor judgment and has been wrong on nearly every major call he's made about our foreign policy since 2000.

5 - Would rather have someone who can actually build on middle ground instead of someone who uses the word "bipartisan" 50 times in the debate but what that really means to him is being contentious and taking all the credit himself.