forgetting any voicemods?

[Pontius Pilate]

Would grafitti on the walls of Pompei qualify as 'spam'?
Would the fact that Latin is itself derived from a language whose native speakers likely hailed from Armenia count for anything?
Would the fact that these speakers were to participate in what eventually became known as the first International System count for anything?
What would the fact that a Roman once remarked that Greece conquered its conquerors make?
What does it say that Romans sought to participate in such cults as Eleusinian mysteries?
What does it say that Christianity itself is based on a series of ancient and all non-Roman precedents?
Where does the very ritual of hand-shaking come from?
What does it mean that Rome itself likely developped into a city only after Etruscans and Greeks from Magna Graecia showed them the way?
Yes indeed: what does it actually mean that most if not all 5 'good emperors' were not from Rome?

It does not mean Rome did not influence the world, it does however beg to differ from the view that Rome was not *at least equally* influenced by that very same world.

Good point. Rome was very much influenced by the Greeks, Etruscans, and some other Italic tribes, you could also argue that they were influenced by the Trojans, or so the myth goes. But then the Romans went on to influence our world. Which is my point. It is sort of like a cycle but I see where you're trying to get at.


Now about Armenia. Why does everyone keep bringing up the point of the Romans originated from Armenia, thus Armenia has more impact on the world, and without Armenia there would be no Rome, or something similar to that line? Okay, let us say that the Romans and all Indo-Europeans originated from present day Armenia. So what. The whole human race as a species originated from Africa, then it spread out into the rest of the world. With that said, one could make the argument that without Africa there would be no Armenia, or even people in general. So you see, to say that Rome or Indo-Europeans hold some kind of debt to Armenia is foolish, because in that case Armenia has a debt to Africa.

Once again I have to stress that there is nothing wrong with Armenia, I am sure it is a wonderful country, but that is not the point.

[||Lz3||]

did you ever saw a cartoon in wich, by traveling to the past, someone kills a small insignificant fly...and then when he returns he finds his world completely diferent?

[Zeibek]

Just to add my worthless two cents:

Nothing has any intrinsic value, nothing. When it comes to something as subjective as "what we find interesting" finding any justification is totally pointless, we simply have to accept the fact that we have different opinions and can't do anything about it. And even if one viewpoint is supported by the majority it makes no difference because reality simply isn't consensus. The cultural collective in which we live in influences these values and might even define them to a certain point, but it's important that we dont't become solipsistic and actually believe them to be true.

So just stop this pety debate that amounts to intellectual masturbation at best, no nation is more worthy of representation than another, the best choice is to choose factions where their culture can be expressed accurately, and Armenia fills that criterion.

Feel free to flame if you find this post annoying.

[Gleemonex]

So just stop this pety debate that amounts to intellectual masturbation at best, no nation is more worthy of representation than another, the best choice is to choose factions where their culture can be expressed accurately, and Armenia fills that criterion.

Feel free to flame if you find this post annoying.

On the contrary -- well said!

-Glee

[Pontius Pilate]

Just to add my worthless two cents:

Nothing has any intrinsic value, nothing. When it comes to something as subjective as "what we find interesting" finding any justification is totally pointless, we simply have to accept the fact that we have different opinions and can't do anything about it. And even if one viewpoint is supported by the majority it makes no difference because reality simply isn't consensus. The cultural collective in which we live in influences these values and might even define them to a certain point, but it's important that we dont't become solipsistic and actually believe them to be true.

So just stop this pety debate that amounts to intellectual masturbation at best, no nation is more worthy of representation than another, the best choice is to choose factions where their culture can be expressed accurately, and Armenia fills that criterion.

Feel free to flame if you find this post annoying.

I see you are trying to stay neutral here and to say that this is all pointless. Which is all fine with me, but then at the very end, you start praising the greatness of Armenia. So I hardly call you neutral and your post was fine until you contradicted yourself at the end.

[Zeibek]

I see you are trying to stay neutral here and to say that this is all pointless. Which is all fine with me, but then at the very end, you start praising the greatness of Armenia. So I hardly call you neutral and your post was fine until you contradicted yourself at the end.

Umm...

the best choice is to choose factions where their culture can be expressed accurately, and Armenia fills that criterion.

At least in my opinion that doesn't amount to praise really. Try replacing Armenia with Rome.

the best choice is to choose factions where their culture can be expressed accurately, and Rome fills that criterion.

Equally true isn't it?

[Pontius Pilate]

Umm...



At least in my opinion that doesn't amount to praise really. Try replacing Armenia with Rome.



Equally true isn't it?

Yes, but remember you said Armenia, not Rome originally. If you want to avoid mistakes like this just say both next time I guess.

[Zeibek]

Yes, but remember you said Armenia, not Rome originally. If you want to avoid mistakes like this just say both next time I guess.

Well, I said that factions that could be historically accurately portrayed should be present, Rome should be a no-brainer on that one and since people were talking about the insignificance of Armenia I thought that I'd have to mention it separately in order to get the message through. Apparently yeah I'll have to mention everything in the future in order to prevent people from going on with their arguments.

[Gleemonex]

So you see, to say that Rome or Indo-Europeans hold some kind of debt to Armenia is foolish, because in that case Armenia has a debt to Africa.

Pray tell what makes that foolish.

-Glee

[artavazd]

OK this thread is becoming a "Rome is better than Armenia and vis versa"

Originaly I made a comment to a post which said that Armenia is insignificant. I put up a couple of links, and put the names of contemporary scholars who have done much work in the area of Ancient Armenian history. I never said Rome is not significant.

Also people are confusing the Indo-European Homland being in the area of Armenia, with the notion that Romans derivied their language from Armenian. Armenian just like all IE languages is derived from Proto-IE although it is just a single offshoot from the Mother Tounge (which to me is fascinating)
To put it shortly the IE tribes who did not migrate out of the area of Armenia, became the Armenians.

Again I will admit that until recently there was not much work being done on Ancient Armenian history. Armenia as an independent nation did not exist since 1375. Most of it was under Turkish rule, and the eastern part was Under Soviet rule. It wasnt until 1991 when the eastern part gained independence from the Soviet Union that the circumstances favored scholarly work on Armenia. I believe in about 5-8 years there would be much more information available on Ancient Armenian history.


I will be honest I am not well aquainted with the Out of Africa theory, but I have also heard of a nother theory which states that Humans developed separatly in diffrent places.

[Pontius Pilate]

I will be honest I am not well aquainted with the Out of Africa theory, but I have also heard of a nother theory which states that Humans developed separatly in diffrent places.

I am pretty sure that the Out of Africa theory is the one accepted by the majority of the scientific community today. The other widely accepted theory is the Bible's explaination.

[artavazd]

I am pretty sure that the Out of Africa theory is the one accepted by the majority of the scientific community today. The other widely accepted theory is the Bible's explaination.

You think thats what we came from?


a human being and a banana have 50% of the same genes so is a banana our ancestor as well?

Im not trying to be an ass, I dont know theres just alot of unanswered questions which science can not answer.

[Pontius Pilate]

You think thats what we came from?


a human being and a banana have 50% of the same genes so is a banana our ancestor as well?

Im not trying to be an ass, I dont know theres just alot of unanswered questions which science can not answer.

Don't even get me started on this one. Yes I admit, science does not know the answers to all the questions. But just because we don't know something doesn't me we should just make up an explanation to fill in the dots! There has been so much evidence discovered in recent years to prove that humans did evolve from apes. Come on people, open up your minds here. So you think some imaginary person in space, who was bored one day decided to put us on this earth? Then to have us all worship him or else be damned for eternity? Please tell me you are not one of those religious fanatics.

[Foot]

You think thats what we came from?


a human being and a banana have 50% of the same genes so is a banana our ancestor as well?

Im not trying to be an ass, I dont know theres just alot of unanswered questions which science can not answer.

Wow, well done my friend, you've managed to misrepresent a sound science and close a thread in just one post.

Locked.

Foot

[Pontius Pilate]

Pray tell what makes that foolish.

-Glee

The whole point of the argument is that some people think without Armenia there would be no Rome, because Romans originated from that part of the world( or some people say). thus they think Armenian influence is greater than Roman and is responsible for everything Rome did. But if that's the way you want to think about the situation, then you could also say that without Africa there would be no Armenia (because the human race originated from Africa). If you want to think like that you could then say that Africa is responsible for everything Armenia did. And I don't think many people would argree with that. Capice?